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TommyH72
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3 hours ago, Monk said:

I thought England played well , created some good chances , their keeper was the busier , showed lots of passion and desire , Romania looked nervous whenever we went forward , some of the defending was awful ,they were slow and looked clueless at times .

I always prefer to watch England in the traditional White Shirt , Shorts and Socks , we seem to play better as was proved yesterday.

Though Romania could have been level but for probably the best save I have seen this season from our keeper.

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Think that is true .. European countries have for a long time placed emphasis on coaching .. not only on skills but teaching players how to play a position 

as for signing up foreign players I have repeatedly heard the equivalent foreign players come with a lot lower transfer fee tag and a lot lower wage demands than there English equivalent 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hoddie said:

I've been reading a book about Steve Bloomer who, in his day, was considered the finest footballer ever to have played the game.

He was one of the few footballers at the turn of the 20th century who actually practiced his ball skills, rather than just relying on fitness and physique as most others did.

Back then clubs didn't employ coaches, only trainers whose job it was to keep the players in good condition. Managers didn't coach either, their job was to deal with the administration of the club, attract new players and help select the team (usually alongside the "player-manager" and board of directors). Thus clubs basically had the fittest most naturally gifted players they could afford. No effort was put into developing talent or improving on skills, though some improvement came as a consequence of actually playing in games.

Bloomer was different - he played for Derby County and when he first joined the club he was fortunate to be an understudy to a player who did believe in practicing ball skills. Bloomer went on to be described in contemporary reports as England's greatest ever footballer. He scored goals for fun and is still revered at County more than a century on.

Like Town's former England international Fred Pentland, Bloomer - after his playing career ended - had to move abroad in order to earn money, because English clubs weren't interested in paying for someone to coach their players, even when that someone was considered to be the greatest English international ever seen. So, also like Pentland, he went to Germany and became employed as a coach, before later being interned as a PoW during WW1.

But what's interesting is that foreign clubs of the day were keen to bring over English footballers to coach their players - they believed that because the game was invented in England, it made sense to have the English teach it to them. Although Bloomer describes German players as unsportsmanlike and basically work-shy, it seemed natural to everyone there that ability could be taught and improved upon by coaching. This set German (and French, Spanish, Italian, etc.) footballers on a different path to their English counterparts.

I wonder if today our clubs are still so stuck on maintaining fitness and physique,  to the detriment of practicing skills, and if that's why the top English clubs end up signing foreign players who have had a much better grounding in the skill-based side of things? Maybe that's also why many of our international rivals are able to produce generation after generation of world-class footballers while we can count the number of English world-class players since the 90s on one hand?

Anyway, for those who may be interested, the book is The Ruhleben Football Association by Paul Brown, ISBN 978-0995541238. It's primarily about how English PoWs survived internment with the help of football to pass the time.

 

Read it. Very good read.

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Went to Boro yesterday, enjoyed the game.

JWP was very good but Grealish was fantastic, every time he drove at the defence they were frightened and he looked like making something happen, can't quite believe some people didn't think he was fouled for the penalty :o

Luke Shaw played well and Johnstone did what he had to.

I like Ben White but JWP would have been the replacement for TAA for me.

Looking forward to the tournament.

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9 minutes ago, Norm said:

Went to Boro yesterday, enjoyed the game.

JWP was very good but Grealish was fantastic, every time he drove at the defence they were frightened and he looked like making something happen, can't quite believe some people didn't think he was fouled for the penalty :o

Luke Shaw played well and Johnstone did what he had to.

I like Ben White but JWP would have been the replacement for TAA for me.

Looking forward to the tournament.

Ben White looked the best of the CBs from the friendlies but JWP should have been selected.

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3 hours ago, Hoddie said:

I wonder if today our clubs are still so stuck on maintaining fitness and physique,  to the detriment of practicing skills, and if that's why the top English clubs end up signing foreign players who have had a much better grounding in the skill-based side of things? Maybe that's also why many of our international rivals are able to produce generation after generation of world-class footballers while we can count the number of English world-class players since the 90s on one hand?

 

A few still are. Seems that since those GPS trackers that players wear are just primarily used to determine who's putting more effort in. But as Wilder said, I could take my dog down the rec and he would give 100%.

It will have changed recently, because since 2010 the FA got the message loud and clear that our coaching culture was way behind. It doesn't take an expert to realise how farcical it is moving under 11s up to full size pitches and goals, for example. From my experience of playing youth football through the 2000s, technique was never coached but expected to develop innately. It requires patience for a coach to intentionally slow down a training session so that players can work on the really subtle things that can make also-rans into masterful players. In this revolving door world though, there are too few people willing to help develop this sort of talent for their youngsters. 

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16 minutes ago, olitheshayman said:

 

It will have changed recently, because since 2010 the FA got the message loud and clear that our coaching culture was way behind. It doesn't take an expert to realise how farcical it is moving under 11s up to full size pitches and goals, for example. From my experience of playing youth football through the 2000s, technique was never coached but expected to develop innately. It requires patience for a coach to intentionally slow down a training session so that players can work on the really subtle things that can make also-rans into masterful players. In this revolving door world though, there are too few people willing to help develop this sort of talent for their youngsters. 

Which is why the club's take in so many youngsters at such young ages.

If they can get them early enough they can embed the correct technique into them so that it becomes natural.

The one thing that does infuriate me is the amount of one footed players in professional football, I find it staggering that at any thing above let's say Brighouse Town level players are not competent to receive and pass the ball with both feet, fair enough on a set play but in open play they should be able to play with both left and right.

 

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4 hours ago, Greggs said:

That decision to take Ben White and not Ward Prowse is a joke. 

That's set pieces ruled out for scoring goals 

Is it really?  

 

For as good as JWP is at taking set pieces he would have to be on the pitch to do so, and unfortunately for him I just don't see him getting much/any game time.

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2 minutes ago, Hembers said:

Is it really?  

 

For as good as JWP is at taking set pieces he would have to be on the pitch to do so, and unfortunately for him I just don't see him getting much/any game time.

That could be said about several of the players. but 2/3 injuries in the first game along with McGuire/Henderson not being fit and anything could happen.

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6 hours ago, Hoddie said:

I've been reading a book about Steve Bloomer who, in his day, was considered the finest footballer ever to have played the game.

He was one of the few footballers at the turn of the 20th century who actually practiced his ball skills, rather than just relying on fitness and physique as most others did.

Back then clubs didn't employ coaches, only trainers whose job it was to keep the players in good condition. Managers didn't coach either, their job was to deal with the administration of the club, attract new players and help select the team (usually alongside the "player-manager" and board of directors). Thus clubs basically had the fittest most naturally gifted players they could afford. No effort was put into developing talent or improving on skills, though some improvement came as a consequence of actually playing in games.

Bloomer was different - he played for Derby County and when he first joined the club he was fortunate to be an understudy to a player who did believe in practicing ball skills. Bloomer went on to be described in contemporary reports as England's greatest ever footballer. He scored goals for fun and is still revered at County more than a century on.

Like Town's former England international Fred Pentland, Bloomer - after his playing career ended - had to move abroad in order to earn money, because English clubs weren't interested in paying for someone to coach their players, even when that someone was considered to be the greatest English international ever seen. So, also like Pentland, he went to Germany and became employed as a coach, before later being interned as a PoW during WW1.

But what's interesting is that foreign clubs of the day were keen to bring over English footballers to coach their players - they believed that because the game was invented in England, it made sense to have the English teach it to them. Although Bloomer describes German players as unsportsmanlike and basically work-shy, it seemed natural to everyone there that ability could be taught and improved upon by coaching. This set German (and French, Spanish, Italian, etc.) footballers on a different path to their English counterparts.

I wonder if today our clubs are still so stuck on maintaining fitness and physique,  to the detriment of practicing skills, and if that's why the top English clubs end up signing foreign players who have had a much better grounding in the skill-based side of things? Maybe that's also why many of our international rivals are able to produce generation after generation of world-class footballers while we can count the number of English world-class players since the 90s on one hand?

Anyway, for those who may be interested, the book is The Ruhleben Football Association by Paul Brown, ISBN 978-0995541238. It's primarily about how English PoWs survived internment with the help of football to pass the time.

 

Very true, and not just in football.

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20 hours ago, TJAshton said:

 

If we get through the group stage we will play against Germany/France/Portugal so can’t see us getting further than that anyway. 

If we come runners up, we will play Sweden, Slovakia or Poland. Best to come runners up than win the group...

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32 minutes ago, TommyH72 said:

There is no such thing. Those players were playing for positions in the Euro Team/s and the performances should reflect that.

The squad has already been picked, if whatshisface dosent know the team he's putting out for the first game ,we are well and truly knacked. 

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3 hours ago, TommyH72 said:

There is no such thing. Those players were playing for positions in the Euro Team/s and the performances should reflect that.

Half the Team will not play in the first game...it was a friendly..

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3 hours ago, chrisbo61 said:

Correct.

The problem with that is that should that occur and should we get through we will most probably have France in the QF.

Whereas in a situation where we win the group we will probably play Germany or Portugal and whilst neither will be easy we have the advantage of playing the game at Wembley. 

Should we get through that we will probably play Spain, not easy but preferable to France in my view.

At the end of the day if we are going to do anything we are, at some point , going to have to step up and beat a genuine world leading team in a tournament knockout game we have a slightly better chance of doing that at Wembley than in Copenhagen. 

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34 minutes ago, nw3casc1 said:

Half the Team will not play in the first game...it was a friendly..

I would be amazed if more than 2 or 3 of yesterday's starters make the 11 on Sunday.

I would say Shaw and perhaps one of Mings or White and Phillips have a chance.

I anticipate he will select.

Pickford 

Walker Stones Mings Shaw

Phillips Rice Mount 

Sterling Kane Rashford 

Personally I would find a spot for Grealish over Rashford and perhaps Foden for Sterling although they are maybe too similar and possibly leaves us a bit one paced up front.

When / if Henderson and Maguire are fit then they come into the team for Mings and Phillips.

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8 hours ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

That could be said about several of the players. but 2/3 injuries in the first game along with McGuire/Henderson not being fit and anything could happen.

Henderson the most overrated footballer ever. I'd rather play Niall Maher.

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57 minutes ago, Norm said:

I would be amazed if more than 2 or 3 of yesterday's starters make the 11 on Sunday.

I would say Shaw and perhaps one of Mings or White and Phillips have a chance.

I anticipate he will select.

Pickford 

Walker Stones Mings Shaw

Phillips Rice Mount 

Sterling Kane Rashford 

Personally I would find a spot for Grealish over Rashford and perhaps Foden for Sterling although they are maybe too similar and possibly leaves us a bit one paced up front.

When / if Henderson and Maguire are fit then they come into the team for Mings and Phillips.

Grealish needs to start.....agree

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1 hour ago, Norm said:

The problem with that is that should that occur and should we get through we will most probably have France in the QF.

Whereas in a situation where we win the group we will probably play Germany or Portugal and whilst neither will be easy we have the advantage of playing the game at Wembley. 

Should we get through that we will probably play Spain, not easy but preferable to France in my view.

At the end of the day if we are going to do anything we are, at some point , going to have to step up and beat a genuine world leading team in a tournament knockout game we have a slightly better chance of doing that at Wembley than in Copenhagen. 

Debatable, but I see where you are coming from.

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