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“The Ball is in the clubs court”


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For the third time  until the loan is agreed we have no budget ..  some of you want DB to commit to 1/2 million pounds to cover contracts but won’t commit a fiver now to the club funds or to

Dont get too big for your boots Pete,  only 1 and a half seasons into their managerial career with us, they are still new kids on the block 

Just a pyramid of emotions

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2 hours ago, ZORRO said:

A difficult situation because of the uncertainty about financial forecasts going forward However the reality is that  clubs will already be lining up for King,Green,Earing and unless we retain PW I feel they will certainly not consider staying. A big decision for DB whether to run a very tight business model and tread water or to go for it.

Very much agree 

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13 minutes ago, Nick said:

For the third time 

until the loan is agreed we have no budget .. 

sime you want DB to commit to 1/2 million pounds to cover contracts but won’t commit a fiver now to the club funds or to a season ticket fir next season 

I challenge everybody on here who is saying DB should give him a new contract now  To commit to buying a season ticket for next year 

you don’t how much it will cost or whether you will have a job or the money or even if we will be allowed back in by then ..

so go ahead commit here and now to a ST .. then maybe if enough people rang up the club commuting to buy a season ticket DB might just then feel confident to do a deal 

nick 

Or why not ask the reciprocal question....how many would be prepared to buy a season ticket if he walked? Suspect very few !  I think this is a great idea, other clubs put season tickets on offer around Easter time at previous season costs, why not make the offer and see what the response would be. Also include free streaming in case they can’t get to every game. I think there would be a decent uptake ! 

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26 minutes ago, oldskir said:

Here's two questions.

1. What evidence is there that the current BOD are "millionaires" as some on here like to quote?

2. How are we better off with DB effectively in sole charge, not putting money in, but running a "tight ship"...than we would be if we were fans owned, with a supporters trust, paying a part time accountant to keep control of the finances?

1. His group of companies turns over in excess of £135m/year. If he's not personally a multimillionaire then perhaps he's not as good a businessman as people say.

2. No guarantee we would be better off. One thing's for sure, the club's accounts - brief as they are - suggest DB hasn't ploughed any significant funds into the club, so in that respect it doesn't really matter whether the owner is a millionaire or penniless. He has, however, put funds into the club as sponsorship, but we have no idea of the amount.

In 110 years of Halifax Town, I'm pretty sure the club has only ever made a profit on a handful of occasions, and all of them were to do with transfer fees. That trend would not change if the supporters were in charge.

But I look at it this way, with judgement of the current BoD reserved, every BoD at Halifax Town has been an abject failure in financial terms. The vast majority threw their own money at the club but then spent it badly and asked for it back when they left. Usually the supporters came to the rescue.

When I was involved with the Trust my opinion was "well the supporters couldn't do any worse, could they?"

As stated above, judgement of the current BoD is reserved for now. On the face of it they have brought much-needed stability to the club, but they have been helped along the way with some very timely - and burgeoning - windfalls. Vardy was a calculated risk so credit has to be given to the BoD for that. Other windfalls were completely random.

In some respects this BoD have been incredibly lucky. The council finished off the stadium at significant cost and barely notched the rent up. Arguably no other BoD have had such a settled stadium situation. On the flip side, there are limited ways in which to earn income from the stadium, which is a disadvantage. But were those streams available, the rent would increase and/or the club would once again become responsible for upkeep of the stadium, which is at least one additional salary. The pros and cons of the current stadium model versus other possible models are probably equal.

The pitch has received more remedial work in the last 12 years than probably the previous 89. The BoD were able to "test the water" in the pub leagues, a big fish in a tiny pond, with our average attendance being ten times that of most other rivals. This allowed them to make costly mistakes with little effect to anything other than the bank balance.

My personal primary issue with this BoD is how two-faced they were with the Trust. Besides that, it is the lack of attachment that I feel to the club. It's difficult to describe in words but I think it extends from the fact that the club has one owner. One owner who could shut it down tomorrow if they so chose. One owner who could do what the hell they wanted and we'd have no say whatsoever. The same was probably true previously in many ways, but other than a short period in the late 80s, early 90s, the BoD and the shareholders were two different groups, and one could divert the plans of the other should the need arise. And say what you want about putting a begging bowl out, it did at least feel like we were part of the club, just as those pioneer supporters who formed the club's working committee back in 1911 and helped develop Sandhall Lane and Exley, and then helped build the Shay Stadium. The supporters have been involved constantly over the years in ground improvements, and working hand-in-glove with the club in various endeavours, be it through a social club or buy a brick or whatever it was. I don't pine for the days when we kept having to find £200 to help the club out but we're back in that position right now and having a millionaire owner hasn't prevented that, exceptional circumstances or otherwise.

So, in conclusion, history will judge this BoD. I'm sure history will be kind, but I doubt winning the pub leagues in 2009 and 2010 will rank amongst many supporters most treasured memories. Unlike beating Man City, West Brom, 97/98, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, and there's always the FA Trophy win at Wembley which will be a highlight for most I'm sure. But I don't see what we won from letting the old club go to the wall. We are now where we were then.

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37 minutes ago, Nick said:

For the third time 

until the loan is agreed we have no budget .. 

sime you want DB to commit to 1/2 million pounds to cover contracts but won’t commit a fiver now to the club funds or to a season ticket fir next season 

I challenge everybody on here who is saying DB should give him a new contract now  To commit to buying a season ticket for next year 

you don’t how much it will cost or whether you will have a job or the money or even if we will be allowed back in by then ..

so go ahead commit here and now to a ST .. then maybe if enough people rang up the club commuting to buy a season ticket DB might just then feel confident to do a deal 

nick 

Maybe start a poll on here Nick? 

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How many other clubs would be lining up to sign Wild and Millie   It is easy to say i want more money or i am off, seen it many times over the years in my career. not may have gone onto greener pastures.  May get more money with another club for 12 months then if they fail they are out on their arse.  They are pretty safe in their present position at a club where the fans love em.   By all means give them a couple of quid more but don't break the bank.

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If PW wants a pay rise, which is deserved in my opinion, then he will have to have realistic expectations. If he is after over a six figure sum then I think he has no chance. DB is in a difficult position, with the team going well he won't want to upset the apple cart if negotiations break down. The answer has to be get us promoted and then we can start talking much improved terms.

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We are still in a Pandemic that does not have a definite conclusion. This time next year things could still be the same. Once you commit to a contract you have to honour it. Until times are more stable no major financial decisions will be made by anyone, especially non league football clubs.

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8 hours ago, Nick said:

For the third time 

until the loan is agreed we have no budget .. 

sime you want DB to commit to 1/2 million pounds to cover contracts but won’t commit a fiver now to the club funds or to a season ticket fir next season 

I challenge everybody on here who is saying DB should give him a new contract now  To commit to buying a season ticket for next year 

you don’t how much it will cost or whether you will have a job or the money or even if we will be allowed back in by then ..

so go ahead commit here and now to a ST .. then maybe if enough people rang up the club commuting to buy a season ticket DB might just then feel confident to do a deal 

nick 

You under estimate the fan base Nick. how much did they raise for the promotion push?

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9 hours ago, Ash said:

Please don’t talk sense Chadders, it confuses people

What Covid outbreak , are you saying the players had Covid for the South Shields game ? How did they manage to play the game if they tested positive I thought they would all have to isolate 

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47 minutes ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

You under estimate the fan base Nick. how much did they raise for the promotion push?

I don’t .. I just find it odd that some of those who are callling for DB to sign lots of new contracts are often the ones who won’t buy a season ticket until things like who we sign or if we will be allowed to attend are cleared up 

some on here even argue that they should not put a penny in and that DB should cover all the funding himself 

I know many don’t and the play off funding was the best ever fund raising ..

I think the more we fund raise the more we commit ourselves to this and more importantly to next season the easier it will be for DB to make the deal with wild and for wild to make deals with key players

we need to be in this together DB can shoulder a bigger weight but knowing he has support enables him to do so with more confidence 

nick 

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1 hour ago, Jmc said:

What Covid outbreak , are you saying the players had Covid for the South Shields game ? How did they manage to play the game if they tested positive I thought they would all have to isolate 

They tested positive a day or so after, half the squad. And that answered Pete Wilds question on why they struggled so much

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No one knows how much pw and Milly are asking for it might be alot  it might not...I think they deserve a pay rise and think they have done alot for the club and will going forward...get them a new contract and get some players contracts extended

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10 hours ago, Glenners said:

Or why not ask the reciprocal question....how many would be prepared to buy a season ticket if he walked? Suspect very few !  I think this is a great idea, other clubs put season tickets on offer around Easter time at previous season costs, why not make the offer and see what the response would be. Also include free streaming in case they can’t get to every game. I think there would be a decent uptake ! 

I agree  maybe the club or the supporters club should ask supporters to commit to buying a season ticket now for next year. 

equally to that the point if wild left you say some supporters wouldnt buy a ST as nobody would be sure about a new manager.... you cant have it both ways 

i think we need to be able and willing to show our support now ... to give DB the confidence to make a deal

 

nick

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Apart from the continual mentioning about difficult budgets, Mr B has managed to support the management team to move to a fuller full time operation, recruited additional back room staff, enabled quality recruitment, whilst the management team for their part, have used the limited budget resources to recruit a bunch of players who now seem to be all round better standard, with fewer weak links,  than we have had for some time.

I hope that this partnership stays together and delivers the dream of a second return to the EFL.

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Just now, rdj said:

Apart from the continual mentioning about difficult budgets, Mr B has managed to support the management team to move to a fuller full time operation, recruited additional back room staff, enabled quality recruitment, whilst the management team for their part, have used the limited budget resources to recruit a bunch of players who now seem to be all round better standard, with fewer weak links,  than we have had for some time.

I hope that this partnership stays together and delivers the dream of a second return to the EFL.

absolutely spot on ... been a successful partnership between chairman and football manager... both need to recognise that.. and wild above all knows what its like working for a "crazy" chairman at oldham

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11 minutes ago, Nick said:

I agree  maybe the club or the supporters club should ask supporters to commit to buying a season ticket now for next year. 

equally to that the point if wild left you say some supporters wouldnt buy a ST as nobody would be sure about a new manager.... you cant have it both ways 

i think we need to be able and willing to show our support now ... to give DB the confidence to make a deal

 

nick

I think you're being a little silly. Why is it reasonable to expect ordinary supporters to commit to spending £300 when personal finances are up in the air, but not reasonable to expect the multimillionaire owner to take the risk instead?

For me, DB should get the management duo signed up. They should get the key players signed up, the 5 or 6 who form the spine of the team. The rest can wait until we know more about future income. We can sign players if finances allow, rely on part-time players or even loan signings. We certainly don't need to commit to signing a 15-20 man squad of players for next season at this present time.

There is an alternative, get out there and take the risk, bring in 20 quality players while other clubs are hedging their bets, and if it all goes tits up, shut up shop and phoenix as Halifax Ramblers or something. It should hold no fear for us, beyond a little embarrassment and shame. But most seemed to get over that pretty quickly last time around :)

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36 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

I think you're being a little silly. Why is it reasonable to expect ordinary supporters to commit to spending £300 when personal finances are up in the air, but not reasonable to expect the multimillionaire owner to take the risk instead?

For me, DB should get the management duo signed up. They should get the key players signed up, the 5 or 6 who form the spine of the team. The rest can wait until we know more about future income. We can sign players if finances allow, rely on part-time players or even loan signings. We certainly don't need to commit to signing a 15-20 man squad of players for next season at this present time.

There is an alternative, get out there and take the risk, bring in 20 quality players while other clubs are hedging their bets, and if it all goes tits up, shut up shop and phoenix as Halifax Ramblers or something. It should hold no fear for us, beyond a little embarrassment and shame. But most seemed to get over that pretty quickly last time around :)

well think we can disagree here  i would say it just as reasonable to ask supporters ( not all of whose finances are uncertain) to commit to a season ticket as it is to ask the chairman to commit to 400,000 pound ... as you say when everything is up in the air 

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11 hours ago, Hoddie said:

1. His group of companies turns over in excess of £135m/year. If he's not personally a multimillionaire then perhaps he's not as good a businessman as people say.

2. No guarantee we would be better off. One thing's for sure, the club's accounts - brief as they are - suggest DB hasn't ploughed any significant funds into the club, so in that respect it doesn't really matter whether the owner is a millionaire or penniless. He has, however, put funds into the club as sponsorship, but we have no idea of the amount.

In 110 years of Halifax Town, I'm pretty sure the club has only ever made a profit on a handful of occasions, and all of them were to do with transfer fees. That trend would not change if the supporters were in charge.

But I look at it this way, with judgement of the current BoD reserved, every BoD at Halifax Town has been an abject failure in financial terms. The vast majority threw their own money at the club but then spent it badly and asked for it back when they left. Usually the supporters came to the rescue.

When I was involved with the Trust my opinion was "well the supporters couldn't do any worse, could they?"

As stated above, judgement of the current BoD is reserved for now. On the face of it they have brought much-needed stability to the club, but they have been helped along the way with some very timely - and burgeoning - windfalls. Vardy was a calculated risk so credit has to be given to the BoD for that. Other windfalls were completely random.

In some respects this BoD have been incredibly lucky. The council finished off the stadium at significant cost and barely notched the rent up. Arguably no other BoD have had such a settled stadium situation. On the flip side, there are limited ways in which to earn income from the stadium, which is a disadvantage. But were those streams available, the rent would increase and/or the club would once again become responsible for upkeep of the stadium, which is at least one additional salary. The pros and cons of the current stadium model versus other possible models are probably equal.

The pitch has received more remedial work in the last 12 years than probably the previous 89. The BoD were able to "test the water" in the pub leagues, a big fish in a tiny pond, with our average attendance being ten times that of most other rivals. This allowed them to make costly mistakes with little effect to anything other than the bank balance.

My personal primary issue with this BoD is how two-faced they were with the Trust. Besides that, it is the lack of attachment that I feel to the club. It's difficult to describe in words but I think it extends from the fact that the club has one owner. One owner who could shut it down tomorrow if they so chose. One owner who could do what the hell they wanted and we'd have no say whatsoever. The same was probably true previously in many ways, but other than a short period in the late 80s, early 90s, the BoD and the shareholders were two different groups, and one could divert the plans of the other should the need arise. And say what you want about putting a begging bowl out, it did at least feel like we were part of the club, just as those pioneer supporters who formed the club's working committee back in 1911 and helped develop Sandhall Lane and Exley, and then helped build the Shay Stadium. The supporters have been involved constantly over the years in ground improvements, and working hand-in-glove with the club in various endeavours, be it through a social club or buy a brick or whatever it was. I don't pine for the days when we kept having to find £200 to help the club out but we're back in that position right now and having a millionaire owner hasn't prevented that, exceptional circumstances or otherwise.

So, in conclusion, history will judge this BoD. I'm sure history will be kind, but I doubt winning the pub leagues in 2009 and 2010 will rank amongst many supporters most treasured memories. Unlike beating Man City, West Brom, 97/98, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, and there's always the FA Trophy win at Wembley which will be a highlight for most I'm sure. But I don't see what we won from letting the old club go to the wall. We are now where we were then.

You do know that turnover is not  necessarily analogous with profit don't you?

Apart from that some interesting points, particularly your summary of the stadium situation.

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1 minute ago, Norm said:

You do know that turnover is not  necessarily analogous with profit don't you?

Apart from that some interesting points, particularly your summary of the stadium situation.

Of course I know it's not the same. Point being few people have companies bringing in that much while being themselves penniless. I would hazard a guess that directors renumeration is in the several hundred thousands region every year, and he's been doing it a long time by all accounts. It's probably in the accounts of you're interested. 

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10 minutes ago, Nick said:

well think we can disagree here  i would say it just as reasonable to ask supporters ( not all of whose finances are uncertain) to commit to a season ticket as it is to ask the chairman to commit to 400,000 pound ... as you say when everything is up in the air 

But you're asking for one and not the other. Or maybe not, I admit I'm not following individual opinions on this, only that I seemed to be in a minority of one. 

I don't think there are my who can be sure of their finances. We're looking at post WW2 uncertainty imo. 

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6 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

But you're asking for one and not the other. Or maybe not, I admit I'm not following individual opinions on this, only that I seemed to be in a minority of one. 

I don't think there are my who can be sure of their finances. We're looking at post WW2 uncertainty imo. 

You are in the minority of 2.

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21 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

Of course I know it's not the same. Point being few people have companies bringing in that much while being themselves penniless. I would hazard a guess that directors renumeration is in the several hundred thousands region every year, and he's been doing it a long time by all accounts. It's probably in the accounts of you're interested. 

I would imagine that he takes it as shares rather than direct salary to reduce his tax liability. Certainly it's what most tax efficient business owners do.

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