Points deduction ?

[greg45 1,561]

Simple - don’t fulfil your fixtures, expelled from the league. Don’t muddy the waters.

[Monk 1,953]

13 hours ago, Nick said:

Should clubs like kings Lynn wealdstone? and Dover 

who have all said that they will not play any more games this season 

face any sanction .. relegation is not an option 

but suggest clubs who stop playing should face a 12 point deduction at the start of next season 

my reason is these clubs are essential preserving their current financial position while those still playing are worsening theirs now ..making them less able to compete next season 

so I think a points deduction is in order.. 

thoughts ? 

From our selfish point of view if Wealdstone and Kings Lynn join Dover and call it a day then having not played Dover , drew at Kings Lynn and lost to Wealdstone we would benefit massively when the league table is updated to reflect their absence .

It would also give the rest spare weekends and midweek slots to help with the fixture backlog .

If the above did happen with the season already one short when it started , it would leave 20 clubs , 38 game season , we would lose 2 games , some clubs 3/4 if they have played any of them twice plus the points and goal difference , eg Sutton 5-1 Kings Lynn when they met .

We would lose 1 point and +1 goal difference some clubs could be looking at losing 9 points and a chunk out of their goals scored column .

So punishing them is probably the right decision but if it means we climb the table 3 or 4 places and the gap between us and the top teams narrows then I say just a stern talking to should suffice.

If we had taken 9 points from the above , I would say , kick em out .

We got demoted 3 leagues and we fulfilled our fixtures but still got kicked out , you cannot just pack in half way through a season and expect no repurcussion's !!!!.

[Steve Lanzarote 5,063]

1 hour ago, chrisbo61 said:

I call it being a realist.

I call it being chribo.

[Ash 1,755]

I think we will benefit massively if those teams drop out and results are in expunged. We will lose 1 point

[TommyH72 856]

A lot of the comments sound very petty to me. "Well we got kicked down three leagues", or "it will be unfair next season". Stop spitting your dummies out, these are extraordinary times, so the usual rules cant be applied. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this season should never have kicked off in the first place. There were always going to be teams that werent going to be able to survive. And dont forget, we havent made it to safety yet, so be careful what you wish for. The best way is to expunge the results from the table and teams who want to carry on then do so. Next season can start on an even keel hopefully with fans back in the stadiums. Personally I feel that the dover chairman is bang on, why risk the future of the club for the sake of trying to see through a lost cause.

[Grayski 386]

2 hours ago, greg45 said:

Simple - don’t fulfil your fixtures, expelled from the league. Don’t muddy the waters.

Sort of, though not much of a punishment to Dover as they were likely to go down anyway.

I do hope some understanding is shown.

 

I bet the likes of Barnet have reason to cheer now no relegation with the other of course been Hartlepool storming this league as champions now it remains on.

Edited February 26 by Grayski

[Grayski 386]

28 minutes ago, TommyH72 said:

A lot of the comments sound very petty to me. "Well we got kicked down three leagues", or "it will be unfair next season". Stop spitting your dummies out, these are extraordinary times, so the usual rules cant be applied. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this season should never have kicked off in the first place. There were always going to be teams that werent going to be able to survive. And dont forget, we havent made it to safety yet, so be careful what you wish for. The best way is to expunge the results from the table and teams who want to carry on then do so. Next season can start on an even keel hopefully with fans back in the stadiums. Personally I feel that the dover chairman is bang on, why risk the future of the club for the sake of trying to see through a lost cause.

Got to agree Tommy, the league need to think carefully about their actions towards clubs that can't afford to continue rather than simply looking under article what ever it is in the rule book in this unprecedented season.

 

Be interesting to see what happens.

[oldskir 446]

If you break the rules and refuse to fulfil your fixtures, the only outcome should be expulsion. That is to say demotion down the pyramid.

If such as Dover and Kings Lynn are having such severe financial problems now, that they say they cannot go on for a couple of months, even with a loan, then there must be doubts over their financial viability to function in the National League NEXT season. Two years ago, Gateshead made a sensible decision when faced with financial issues. They opted VOLUNTARILY to ask for relegation, and dropped down in to National North. They now seem to be at a level where they can function on an even keel money wise.

Same should apply to Dover. And remember the comments some posters have made earlier. The National League clubs who take loans and DO carry on the season will be stretching themselves financially to a degree, and this will impact on them next season. It will be particularly tough on such as ourselves. We will have the millstone of the loan, and have to fund repayments from our budget next year. Why should Dover etc. gain the advantage over us, and be allowed to compete in next year's National League with the unfair advantage to them of having no loan debt to service?

[Greggs 1,832]

17 minutes ago, oldskir said:

If you break the rules and refuse to fulfil your fixtures, the only outcome should be expulsion. That is to say demotion down the pyramid.

If such as Dover and Kings Lynn are having such severe financial problems now, that they say they cannot go on for a couple of months, even with a loan, then there must be doubts over their financial viability to function in the National League NEXT season. Two years ago, Gateshead made a sensible decision when faced with financial issues. They opted VOLUNTARILY to ask for relegation, and dropped down in to National North. They now seem to be at a level where they can function on an even keel money wise.

Same should apply to Dover. And remember the comments some posters have made earlier. The National League clubs who take loans and DO carry on the season will be stretching themselves financially to a degree, and this will impact on them next season. It will be particularly tough on such as ourselves. We will have the millstone of the loan, and have to fund repayments from our budget next year. Why should Dover etc. gain the advantage over us, and be allowed to compete in next year's National League with the unfair advantage to them of having no loan debt to service?

How do you decide who comes into the league though to replace these teams. With every league below stopped. 

Edited February 26 by Greggs

[Hoddie 3,321]

If we dropped out mid season I'd fully expect the club to be expelled by the Conference. 

Extraordinary times or not, Dover are being asked to deal with the same circumstances as every other club. All were given a vote.

Brexit means Brexit. 

[Wilder Bollox 5,679]

But what are the current rules ? One minute they are threatening to punish teams that don't fulfill fixtures, the next minute they are assuring teams they won't be punished then they do another u-turn and are once again dishing out threats whilst too leagues are declared null and void with some teams still trying to find a way to keep playing . A legal minefield ahead

[TommyH72 856]

Then the League authority should cancel all fixtures from here on in and null and void the season. The clubs who take on any kind of financial burden that is going to jeopardize the future of the club are fools. 

[Burnleynill 42]

Macclesfield have been kicked out for this season, Dover should  be given the chance to play those fixtures or ask to be placed in conf south next season if then refuse they should be Kicked out of the conference set up, and have to join what ever league will have them next season.

[bazza45 227]

Dover's defence is that when they agreed tp start the season they thought they would either be given further money or be allowed a crowd.  Things didn't turn out as they expected so they want to throw their toys out of the pram.  When we were demoted to the glue leagues all those years ago things hadn't turned out as expected.  We didn't know when we started the season in August that we would be broke by the end of the year.  

Any team that refuses to complete the season has to be subject to some sanction, demotion one league is not enough.  If that is the case then what is to stop any team in future refusing to finish the season when they find themselves bottom of the league with little hope of avoiding the drop

[Nick 2,220]

If teams are kicked out .. how are places filled from the league below ? 
 

that why I proposed a points deduction for next season 

[Steve Lanzarote 5,063]

I still think regionalise L2 and National with whatever number of teams left.

[kit 595]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

If teams are kicked out .. how are places filled from the league below ? 
 

that why I proposed a points deduction for next season 

Don't worry, Nick. The League officials will sort it out with their usual fairness and efficiency. Maybe the Clubs can have a series of votes, similar to the recent ones but with more options?

[oldskir 446]

3 hours ago, Greggs said:

How do you decide who comes into the league though to replace these teams. With every league below stopped. 

If we say we are living in extraordinary times, I would suggest extraordinary measures.

I think we do need to replace such as Dover if they are demoted, we've already lost Macclesfield. We don't want a 20 team only Division.

Even though the season is only half way through, I would do what happened last season, and promote teams from the North and South based on their points per games ratio.

Even more radical. Since there are a majority of sides in South who wish to continue playing, and also most of the bigger clubs in the North, I'd look to set up a new half season League, with four promoted at the end of it.

You could then have the likes of Dorking, Fylde, Gloucester, York, Kidderminster, Dartford etc fighting it out for promotion.

I know some of you will reject this idea, and it's most unlikely to happen. But at the end of the day, the National League needs clubs that are debt free/have good financial backing, and if that means such as Fylde getting the chance to come back up, then so be it.

The alternative is to start next season with such as Dover in the National, they then collapse mid season due to financial problems. And in any case, I hate the idea of no promotion/ relegation.

[nw3casc1 937]

5 hours ago, TommyH72 said:

A lot of the comments sound very petty to me. "Well we got kicked down three leagues", or "it will be unfair next season". Stop spitting your dummies out, these are extraordinary times, so the usual rules cant be applied. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this season should never have kicked off in the first place. There were always going to be teams that werent going to be able to survive. And dont forget, we havent made it to safety yet, so be careful what you wish for. The best way is to expunge the results from the table and teams who want to carry on then do so. Next season can start on an even keel hopefully with fans back in the stadiums. Personally I feel that the dover chairman is bang on, why risk the future of the club for the sake of trying to see through a lost cause.

Agree..

[Shaymus 1,100]

If a club decides to not fulfil their fixtures and gets expelled, where do they go? Which league would they be in next season? Or is it just a case of them sitting tight until the end of the season while the rest of the teams just carry on, with no relegation to worry about. 

[riccardo259 1,535]

The teams have to face some sort of consequence for breaking the rules. Yes, this isn’t a normal season, but they still signed up to play and everyone is playing within the same set of rules. Expulsion from the league may be a bit drastic with the circumstances, and working out who would replace them with nobody coming from the leagues below.
 

A points deduction next season would be my vote, but how would that be calculated? A 3 point deduction for each game missed would lead to teams needing to effectively win the league to even get a positive points total. If a team found themselves on -50/60 or more with no hope of survival then what is the point in them even trying? They would just field a youth team and get spanked every game

[Greggs 1,832]

18 minutes ago, Shaymus said:

If a club decides to not fulfil their fixtures and gets expelled, where do they go? Which league would they be in next season? Or is it just a case of them sitting tight until the end of the season while the rest of the teams just carry on, with no relegation to worry about. 

This cannot happen surely. If teams are aloud to stop playing and then start next season in the same league then I hope we follow suit because why wouldn't you. 

There has to be a punishment. A points deduction for the start of next season seems like the most viable option. Maybe -15 from the start 

[Shaymus 1,100]

39 minutes ago, Greggs said:

This cannot happen surely. If teams are aloud to stop playing and then start next season in the same league then I hope we follow suit because why wouldn't you. 

There has to be a punishment. A points deduction for the start of next season seems like the most viable option. Maybe -15 from the start 

Probably the most logical solution.

[Hoddie 3,321]

1 hour ago, Shaymus said:

If a club decides to not fulfil their fixtures and gets expelled, where do they go? Which league would they be in next season? Or is it just a case of them sitting tight until the end of the season while the rest of the teams just carry on, with no relegation to worry about. 

To the same level as the teams promoted to replace them were previously at.

A points deduction would be okay with me, but I think it's a relatively painless way to save yourself a fortune while many of your peers decide to honour the majority vote and carry on.

[Hoddie 3,321]

How about offering those clubs in North/South who wanted to continue their season the chance to take up Dover's record in the National, effectively swapping positions, with all that it entails?