Woking

[halifaxmark 1,638]

19 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

I'm starting to get a bit irritated by all this talk of simply gifting money to Halifax Town and, even worse, opposition clubs. If people are feeling philanthropic then by all means give away every penny you own, but it seems to me that some are trying to build up a head of steam so as to coerce the rest of us into doing the same.

I paid £12 to watch a football game. It was expensive in my opinion. The product provided was terrible and I've asked for a refund. I have no interest in Woking's financial position and I feel no compulsion to 'gift' them the money if it is refunded to me.

Nor do I feel the need to give it to Halifax Town. Frankly, I feel like I've given them enough. It is a limited company with - as far as I know - one owner, who is a person of considerable means if reports are to be believed. The club is receiving financial support from the 'footballing family' and other organisations. If money is tight then they shouldn't be out there signing players to cover temporary injuries, spending cash they might well need further down the line.

The club has to be sensible and prudent, values they've demonstrated many times under the current chairman's tenure for over a decade (debateable imo but that seems to be the consensus).

I don't think it's right or fair to expect supporters to continue contributing at a time when nobody can really be all that certain about their own financial position. Jobs aren't secure, pensions aren't secure, benefits aren't secure. Covid-19 is a ****-show and a no-deal Brexit now seems nailed on. The consequences of both are simply unknown and could be absolutely devastating.

If you are confident in your finances and feel you can throw money at privately owned companies, fantastic. But please stop trying to shame the rest of us into doing the same.

/rant

Agree. Seems alot of people at every opportunity want us to keep giving the club money. I bought my season ticket and pay for away streaming so ive paid enough. Plus i contributed to the play off push snd paid for my son to be a mascot last season. Not every penny we have should go towards the club, i didn't pay £12 for the stream yesterday but took my 3 kids out for a dessert today and put it towards that, money well spent.

[Wilder Bollox 5,467]

I've just read a ridiculous editorial in the Yorkshire Post in which a financial advisor type bloke is telling everybody to take out loans and spend lots of money to lift the nation out of recession so that we'll be in a stronger position than all the other recession torn nations . I'm in the Hoddie camp with my deep pockets and short arms . 

[Walt Jabsco 126]

Surely the refund is from inplayer not the relevant clubs? 

[Hands Off The Shay 354]

It always makes me laugh when people say DB has been prudent and the club has been well run.

I am guessing all the Vardy money etc. has now been spent instead of being kept for a rainy day such as now.

If you buy a football club I am afraid digging into your own pocket comes with it and in fairness no doubt DB has done so in terms of his business sponsorship etc.

DB said he would leave us with no debts but I don't think he will leave us with much cash either!

[eddie 917]

15 minutes ago, Hands Off The Shay said:

It always makes me laugh when people say DB has been prudent and the club has been well run.

I am guessing all the Vardy money etc. has now been spent instead of being kept for a rainy day such as now.

If you buy a football club I am afraid digging into your own pocket comes with it and in fairness no doubt DB has done so in terms of his business sponsorship etc.

DB said he would leave us with no debts but I don't think he will leave us with much cash either!

I always save some money for a rainy day but I think where in a tsunami at the moment and no chairman could have ever seen this coming. I hope no clubs go bust because of what’s happening at moment 

[woody 426]

2 hours ago, PRS said:

If you’re reading this item you could be forgiven for thinking

” that whilst towns result is important , £12 is importanter ! “ 

Did you pay for the stream? Was you happy with the quality and service?

[Nick 2,028]

59 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

I'm starting to get a bit irritated by all this talk of simply gifting money to Halifax Town and, even worse, opposition clubs. If people are feeling philanthropic then by all means give away every penny you own, but it seems to me that some are trying to build up a head of steam so as to coerce the rest of us into doing the same.

I paid £12 to watch a football game. It was expensive in my opinion. The product provided was terrible and I've asked for a refund. I have no interest in Woking's financial position and I feel no compulsion to 'gift' them the money if it is refunded to me.

Nor do I feel the need to give it to Halifax Town. Frankly, I feel like I've given them enough. It is a limited company with - as far as I know - one owner, who is a person of considerable means if reports are to be believed. The club is receiving financial support from the 'footballing family' and other organisations. If money is tight then they shouldn't be out there signing players to cover temporary injuries, spending cash they might well need further down the line.

The club has to be sensible and prudent, values they've demonstrated many times under the current chairman's tenure for over a decade (debateable imo but that seems to be the consensus).

I don't think it's right or fair to expect supporters to continue contributing at a time when nobody can really be all that certain about their own financial position. Jobs aren't secure, pensions aren't secure, benefits aren't secure. Covid-19 is a ****-show and a no-deal Brexit now seems nailed on. The consequences of both are simply unknown and could be absolutely devastating.

If you are confident in your finances and feel you can throw money at privately owned companies, fantastic. But please stop trying to shame the rest of us into doing the same.

/rant

Great rant ., your opinion 

[Hoddie 3,065]

8 minutes ago, eddie said:

I hope no clubs go bust because of what’s happening at moment 

So do I. But it's not my responsibility to help prevent it.

[Hoddie 3,065]

30 minutes ago, Hands Off The Shay said:

It always makes me laugh when people say DB has been prudent and the club has been well run.

I've been beating that drum for years now but people see what they want to see. One thing's for sure, the money's run out. Covid-19 was unforeseen as far as football clubs are concerned and I obviously don't hold the BoD responsible for the what's going on right now. We were asked to help and many of us have. Now, other support has come on stream and the situation is much clearer. Spending should be based on the current situation, not the situation we all hoped for, but the signing of players after it became clear that supporters would not be allowed to attend games suggests that that's not the case. We can't know for sure.

[Flea 6,636]

35 minutes ago, eddie said:

I hope no clubs go bust because of what’s happening at moment 

I hope the likes of Boreham and Eastleigh, who have been bankrolled for years, go under. Their reckless over spending has pushed the running costs up for other clubs that try to compete and has helped warp the financial playing side of things. I got great schadenfreude listening to the Boreham chairman crying about the lack of support he was getting from the general public to watch the club last year, and even more when he then claimed to have re-morgaged his house to help them in the playoffs.

These playthings are a blight on the game. I won't miss any of them. 

[francisfirth 769]

1 hour ago, Hoddie said:

I've been beating that drum for years now but people see what they want to see. One thing's for sure, the money's run out. Covid-19 was unforeseen as far as football clubs are concerned and I obviously don't hold the BoD responsible for the what's going on right now. We were asked to help and many of us have. Now, other support has come on stream and the situation is much clearer. Spending should be based on the current situation, not the situation we all hoped for, but the signing of players after it became clear that supporters would not be allowed to attend games suggests that that's not the case. We can't know for sure.

There are many ways to be prudent, the best I can think of is to invest in something that will grow. In football terms Vardy and Gregory were great examples. Roberts and Liam Hogan, similar but no cash.. Gardner of course and Judas Tuton. The point is, without backing and risk taking we wouldn't have had the financial cushion to eat into. We only spent the money because we had made good decisions to acquire it in the first place. How many other small, no hope non league clubs can claim the same track record?  Let's not underestimate what got us to a point of financial stability that stands out beyond any other in this or the previous club.  

Expect folk to point to why why went bust. I would argue it breathed new life into this tired football club and for me, the past decade or so have been amongst the most enjoyable I have had in 40 plus years of supporting the opposite of Brazil. 

 

 

[ITMAN 1,266]

2 hours ago, Hoddie said:

I'm starting to get a bit irritated by all this talk of simply gifting money to Halifax Town and, even worse, opposition clubs. If people are feeling philanthropic then by all means give away every penny you own, but it seems to me that some are trying to build up a head of steam so as to coerce the rest of us into doing the same.

I paid £12 to watch a football game. It was expensive in my opinion. The product provided was terrible and I've asked for a refund. I have no interest in Woking's financial position and I feel no compulsion to 'gift' them the money if it is refunded to me.

Nor do I feel the need to give it to Halifax Town. Frankly, I feel like I've given them enough. It is a limited company with - as far as I know - one owner, who is a person of considerable means if reports are to be believed. The club is receiving financial support from the 'footballing family' and other organisations. If money is tight then they shouldn't be out there signing players to cover temporary injuries, spending cash they might well need further down the line.

The club has to be sensible and prudent, values they've demonstrated many times under the current chairman's tenure for over a decade (debateable imo but that seems to be the consensus).

I don't think it's right or fair to expect supporters to continue contributing at a time when nobody can really be all that certain about their own financial position. Jobs aren't secure, pensions aren't secure, benefits aren't secure. Covid-19 is a ****-show and a no-deal Brexit now seems nailed on. The consequences of both are simply unknown and could be absolutely devastating.

If you are confident in your finances and feel you can throw money at privately owned companies, fantastic. But please stop trying to shame the rest of us into doing the same.

/rant

Hoddie, on the whole I agree with your point of view, with one or two caveats.

"I don't think it's right or fair to expect supporters to continue contributing at a time when nobody can really be all that certain about their own financial position"

Absolutely correct. Any ideas put forward are there to be considered by each individual supporter, and should take into account their own personal circumstances. 

"If you are confident in your finances and feel you can throw money at privately owned companies, fantastic. But please stop trying to shame the rest of us into doing the same."

Absolutely correct. Only those supporters who feel they can afford to do so should partake in any of the ideas put forward. It is nothing to do with trying to shame anyone or make them feel they are any less of a supporter if they feel they are unable to join in for personal financial reasons, especially in the current economic climate.

The one area where your "rant" went off piste was that the ideas being proposed are not about giving money to a limited company but are designed to raise funds for the Supporters Club. Yes, the primary purpose of the HTSC is to raise funds to help support the football club, but do not forget that HTSC also has overheads, only small but they have to be funded from somewhere, as well as the fact that the CV-19 restrictions placed on society as a whole have more or less stopped any of the traditional fund raising efforts in there tracks. This has led to looking to other avenues to try to create some form of income.

Having browsed many NL club websites over the last few months there is some form of fundraising effort going on right across the board at every club. Even with the promise of a Govt/Lottery grant, this will not replace the loss of income the club has suffered/will suffer, if we continue to play behind closed doors past Christmas. HTSC has for as many years as I can remember, in one guise or another, always raised funds to support the club, whoever the "owners" were. This is only what is being done now, but with the advent of social media and Shaymen.net we are trying to keep the efforts of the HTSC out there for people to see and for them to engage with if they wish to. 

At the end of the day, if we do not keep some form of fundraising going, if ever the proverbial hits the fan and the begging bowl really comes out, then at least we are ticking over and can ramp up if we should ever need to, plus maybe have something in reserve in the HTSC coffers to help fund further fundraising efforts. 

 

 

 

[Flea 6,636]

Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of the money we made was then spent on setting up things like training facilities and bases and improving the off field operations which hopefully in the next few seasons will prove worthwhile. We have had a couple of seasons of "controlled loses" which have actually given us a very tight and small squad, but one that has been able to compete at this level.

That isn't to say the club are void of all criticism on how money has been raised or earned. Certainly in the Evo-Stik years the club were nothing short of shambolic in promoting our success and cashing in on things. We were also too easy to be  closed shop over the summer months and kill momentum. In the past few years we seem to have actually corrected this which is pleasing however. 

[ITMAN 1,266]

41 minutes ago, Flea said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of the money we made was then spent on setting up things like training facilities and bases and improving the off field operations which hopefully in the next few seasons will prove worthwhile. We have had a couple of seasons of "controlled loses" which have actually given us a very tight and small squad, but one that has been able to compete at this level.

That isn't to say the club are void of all criticism on how money has been raised or earned. Certainly in the Evo-Stik years the club were nothing short of shambolic in promoting our success and cashing in on things. We were also too easy to be  closed shop over the summer months and kill momentum. In the past few years we seem to have actually corrected this which is pleasing however. 

As they say, "you have to speculate to accumulate".

[Nick 2,028]

10 hours ago, Hands Off The Shay said:

It always makes me laugh when people say DB has been prudent and the club has been well run.

I am guessing all the Vardy money etc. has now been spent instead of being kept for a rainy day such as now.

If you buy a football club I am afraid digging into your own pocket comes with it and in fairness no doubt DB has done so in terms of his business sponsorship etc.

DB said he would leave us with no debts but I don't think he will leave us with much cash either!

How much do you think it costs to run the club? 
DB has said clearly that we have been running a controlled for the last few seasons .. think it’s been around 6 figure sum each year 

then we have the fans .. god knows how many times I have read here that we need to speculate to accumulate.. we need to splash the cash .. we needed  more players need better players need to spend more.. the comments are endless...

the Vardy and Gregory money will have gone or very little left .. but that has been done in a measured way 

..if we lived purely in our revenue we would be a smaller club 2000 gates don’t cover the running cost .. it’s that simple 

 

[Bubba 1,851]

7 minutes ago, Nick said:

..if we lived purely in our revenue we would be a smaller club 2000 gates don’t cover the running cost .. it’s that simple 

 

But our gates (plus other commercial income) do cover our running costs. We dont have an owner who ploughs in the cash.

[Hoddie 3,065]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

then we have the fans .. god knows how many times I have read here that we need to speculate to accumulate.. we need to splash the cash .. we needed  more players need better players need to spend more.. the comments are endless...

Some do say that, but I think mostly people just wanted the windfalls spent more wisely, rather than just propping up an unsustainable model for a couple of seasons more than would otherwise been possible.

[Hoddie 3,065]

9 hours ago, ITMAN said:

The one area where your "rant" went off piste was that the ideas being proposed are not about giving money to a limited company but are designed to raise funds for the Supporters Club. Yes, the primary purpose of the HTSC is to raise funds to help support the football club, but do not forget that HTSC also has overheads, only small but they have to be funded from somewhere, as well as the fact that the CV-19 restrictions placed on society as a whole have more or less stopped any of the traditional fund raising efforts in there tracks. This has led to looking to other avenues to try to create some form of income.

Give over, people hand over cash in the knowledge that it will all be going to the club, bar a few pence here and there to help raise that money in the first place.

I am NOT against fundraising. I AM against trying to create a situation where people feel pressured into giving more than they would like to.

It's great that some supporters can hand over cash without thinking twice about it, I consider myself one of them, but I'm also very well aware that some supporters simply don't have the means, and I don't think they should be made to feel uncomfortable because they don't want to 'top up' the money they've paid to stream a game, or money they would have otherwise spent had they been allowed to attend.

The club is a commercial entity and a private company with, I believe, one owner. DB has made it plainly obvious that he is answerable to no-one - that's exactly how he wanted it from day one. Covid-19 has landed us with an unprecedented situation and the supporters have stepped up to help out, many doing so even when their own personal financial circumstances were far from certain. But that's done. It's not unprecedented any more, the club should have some idea what this season will cost, and have some idea of whether funding for that is in place. If they don't, and that wouldn't be unreasonable right now, they shouldn't be spending cash signing players we could well do without.

Now if never before is a time to be prudent. To spend as little as necessary.

[Hoddie 3,065]

1 hour ago, Bubba said:

But our gates (plus other commercial income) do cover our running costs. We dont have an owner who ploughs in the cash.

I tend to believe that DB does put a fair old sum into the club annually, though he does it as sponsorship rather than as a loan. Which is perfect and he should get immense credit for doing it that way, I don't think many club owners/directors would be happy to do that.

But, and it's a big BUT, because the club only does abbreviated accounts we can't be absolutely certain of anything. He may pay market rate for the sponsorship, he may pay only a token amount, or he may pay many times more than it's actually worth just to get some of his cash into the club. We simply don't know (and as far as I'm aware he hasn't said).

[Steve Lanzarote 4,603]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

How much do you think it costs to run the club? 
DB has said clearly that we have been running a controlled for the last few seasons .. think it’s been around 6 figure sum each year 

then we have the fans .. god knows how many times I have read here that we need to speculate to accumulate.. we need to splash the cash .. we needed  more players need better players need to spend more.. the comments are endless...

the Vardy and Gregory money will have gone or very little left .. but that has been done in a measured way 

..if we lived purely in our revenue we would be a smaller club 2000 gates don’t cover the running cost .. it’s that simple 

 

You´re not taking into account other incomes to cover running cost we need 2200, the 200 I would say is easily covered by commercial income.

[Janis 124]

12 hours ago, Hands Off The Shay said:

It always makes me laugh when people say DB has been prudent and the club has been well run.

I am guessing all the Vardy money etc. has now been spent instead of being kept for a rainy day such as now.

If you buy a football club I am afraid digging into your own pocket comes with it and in fairness no doubt DB has done so in terms of his business sponsorship etc.

DB said he would leave us with no debts but I don't think he will leave us with much cash either!

Db as put more money in than we will ever know

[Hoddie 3,065]

3 minutes ago, Janis said:

Db as put more money in than we will ever know

It is ridiculously absurd to have such blind faith in a statement you yourself acknowledge will never be proven.

[Steve Lanzarote 4,603]

5 minutes ago, Janis said:

Db as put more money in than we will ever know

No doubt Janis but you owned your own company as I did and we both put money into them aa any company owner does, that´s where the problem lies it´s a Ltd Compnay.

 

[Steve Lanzarote 4,603]

1 minute ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

No doubt Janis but you owned your own company as I did and we both put money into them as any company owner does, that´s where the problem lies it´s a Ltd Compnay.

 

 

[Nick 2,028]

58 minutes ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

You´re not taking into account other incomes to cover running cost we need 2200, the 200 I would say is easily covered by commercial income.

I was not trying to take into account ..some people seem to think that paying at the gate or a season ticket covers the cost.. it doesn’t probably around half the cost 

the other money comes from sponsorship. Merchandising golf days  .. cup runs some league hand out .. 

gifts and donation .. in short getting people to pay in or buy things over and over again ..