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Southgate to blame, should be playing 4-3-3, I wouldn't even put Declan Rice in Town's starting 11, he should be nowhere near this England squad, waited until the 70th minute to make a sub.

2 holding midfielders and 5 at the back is ridiculous.

Darren Kelly would be no worse than what Southgate is at the moment.

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I've just watched the "highlights" of the game, and we were poor. Worse still was Southgates reaction to the defeat. He's proud of the team, of the way they played, of the manner in which they reacted after going down to 10 men. He's proud of the fact that for the first time in Englands footballing history we had two men red carded. I've been a supporter of Southgate thus far but I'm really asking questions of him at the moment. I noted last night that Jordan Sancho came on in the 73rd min and I didnt hear his name mentioned after that, well on the highlights I didnt even see him let alone hear of him. Harry Kane playing when not fit, something that is questionable as Southgate is denying that Spurs didnt want him to play and for him to return to the club. I like Marcus Rashford, he didnt have his best night last night but neither did any of the others, but my question would be:- I know his political issues are bang on the money and he's doing some good stuff getting support for the kids etc, but he's a professional footballer playing at the very highest level, shouldnt his full commitment be to the game, he shouldnt be thinking of anything but football. I'm damn sure there will be Man U supporters asking the same question. Harry Maguire, his head is shredded at the moment, his United form is diabolical, shouldnt have been anywhere near the dressing room let alone the pitch, he was so far out of position when he go his first yellow chasing a pointless ball that was of no danger whatsoever. I did though think the second one was harsh, but it was the first one that got him sent off. As for the penalty decision, It was a penalty, incredibly soft though it may have been, but we cant take Hendersons against Belgium, where a hand gently patted him on the shoulder and he went down like he'd been poleaxed and then grumble when similar happens against us?? But then to top it all off, and the worst decision of the night, why the fecking hell were we wearing Blue?? We were at Wembley, at Home, the home team in our National stadium and we were wearing Blue!!!! WHY?? 

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41 minutes ago, TommyH72 said:

I've just watched the "highlights" of the game, and we were poor. Worse still was Southgates reaction to the defeat. He's proud of the team, of the way they played, of the manner in which they reacted after going down to 10 men. He's proud of the fact that for the first time in Englands footballing history we had two men red carded. I've been a supporter of Southgate thus far but I'm really asking questions of him at the moment. I noted last night that Jordan Sancho came on in the 73rd min and I didnt hear his name mentioned after that, well on the highlights I didnt even see him let alone hear of him. Harry Kane playing when not fit, something that is questionable as Southgate is denying that Spurs didnt want him to play and for him to return to the club. I like Marcus Rashford, he didnt have his best night last night but neither did any of the others, but my question would be:- I know his political issues are bang on the money and he's doing some good stuff getting support for the kids etc, but he's a professional footballer playing at the very highest level, shouldnt his full commitment be to the game, he shouldnt be thinking of anything but football. I'm damn sure there will be Man U supporters asking the same question. Harry Maguire, his head is shredded at the moment, his United form is diabolical, shouldnt have been anywhere near the dressing room let alone the pitch, he was so far out of position when he go his first yellow chasing a pointless ball that was of no danger whatsoever. I did though think the second one was harsh, but it was the first one that got him sent off. As for the penalty decision, It was a penalty, incredibly soft though it may have been, but we cant take Hendersons against Belgium, where a hand gently patted him on the shoulder and he went down like he'd been poleaxed and then grumble when similar happens against us?? But then to top it all off, and the worst decision of the night, why the fecking hell were we wearing Blue?? We were at Wembley, at Home, the home team in our National stadium and we were wearing Blue!!!! WHY?? 

Wow what a moan, the current England team has more fire power than it has for a number of years. 

Southgate is doing well overall imo but will never please everyone. Some of his players need to start behaving off the field.

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1 minute ago, greygoose said:

Wow what a moan, the current England team has more fire power than it has for a number of years. 

Southgate is doing well overall imo but will never please everyone. Some of his players need to start behaving off the field.

But he can't set up his defence,why do we play right back on left, and when 1 down take Rice off and leave Grealish on bench. He should have admitted he made mistakes and it was poor . 

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We beat perhaps the strongest  Belgium national team of all time the other day, had a few disruptions in the squad in the days since with Trippier and Chilwell going home and then Maguire let us down against Denmark who are no mugs. I know that being a football supporter largely involves belching crisps at the telly when the world's greatest athletes slip up, but everyone was setting their traps to blame Southgate on Saturday, they didn't get what they want then and seem gleeful that we slipped up last night.

Southgate has brought a much more positive mentality towards playing for England and seems to manage the players well, even if his tactics are far from watertight (greatest criticism still comes for the way he set us up in the second half of the World Cup Semi-Final). Still, it's not easy to find the exact England formation when we have perhaps 3 of the world's best right backs all competing against each other for that one position, then 3 attacking wingers in Sterling, Sancho and the ever improving Jack Grealish. The competition in the squad is good, though it's a bit lopsided which will pose any England manager a significant challenge.

They'll have learned a lot from last night. Best to figure this out in these matches than in the World Cup or European Championship finals.

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3 minutes ago, olitheshayman said:

We beat perhaps the strongest  Belgium national team of all time the other day, had a few disruptions in the squad in the days since with Trippier and Chilwell going home and then Maguire let us down against Denmark who are no mugs. I know that being a football supporter largely involves belching crisps at the telly when the world's greatest athletes slip up, but everyone was setting their traps to blame Southgate on Saturday, they didn't get what they want then and seem gleeful that we slipped up last night.

Southgate has brought a much more positive mentality towards playing for England and seems to manage the players well, even if his tactics are far from watertight (greatest criticism still comes for the way he set us up in the second half of the World Cup Semi-Final). Still, it's not easy to find the exact England formation when we have perhaps 3 of the world's best right backs all competing against each other for that one position, then 3 attacking wingers in Sterling, Sancho and the ever improving Jack Grealish. The competition in the squad is good, though it's a bit lopsided which will pose any England manager a significant challenge.

They'll have learned a lot from last night. Best to figure this out in these matches than in the World Cup or European Championship finals.

Hazard and Courtois didn't play so how could it be there strongest team 

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15 minutes ago, eddie said:

But he can't set up his defence,why do we play right back on left, and when 1 down take Rice off and leave Grealish on bench. He should have admitted he made mistakes and it was poor . 

Who would you have played at LB?

Grealish is a good player but also a d**k, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

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5 minutes ago, greygoose said:

Who would you have played at LB?

Grealish is a good player but also a d**k, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

Ryan Bertrand plays well at Southampton not sure who plays left back for under 21s,but every time a right back attacks on left he stops and gets ball on his right foot and we go backwards. Gazza was a d**k but was what we needed to drive us forward , play the players in form, should have started with Mings instead other Maguire 

 

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Agree. I think there is almost a delight in some of the stuff you see trying to take a pop at GS.

That said it doesn't mean that you can't point out clear anomalies.

I think post Russia he clearly worked out that 433 was the best system for him, his problem at the moment is that he doesn't trust 2 CB's hence why we are playing 3 and he hasn't struck on a balance in midfield where we lack a proper controlling CM.

All that being said if we are going with a back 3 we don't need 2 CDM's it means with the wing backs we essentially have 7 defensive players in the starting 11.

If we are to play with a back 3 I prefer the system from Russia which was more of a 3322, but that was exposed in the big games of course.

You can go through individual sections for each game and we would all pick different players but I must say that I was surprised Henderson didn't start, he always plays well and drives the team forward, I also agree with the comments re Kane he just doesn't look sharp enough at the moment.

Finally I have gone on about it before but Grealish has got to start, how Mount started is beyond me and Rashford was very poor.

All is not lost win in Brussels and beat Iceland and we will still probably win the group but there are a number of issues to solve.

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Playing three centre backs is not easy to play it well and shouldn’t be done because you don’t trust you best two 

the object is to be able to let you full backs to move forward easily into attacking positions with your three centre back spreading wider to cover the space left open by your fullbacks or wing backs moving forward 

so you need three mobile and sure footed CB .. not three players off form 

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5 minutes ago, Nick said:

Playing three centre backs is not easy to play it well and shouldn’t be done because you don’t trust you best two 

the object is to be able to let you full backs to move forward easily into attacking positions with your three centre back spreading wider to cover the space left open by your fullbacks or wing backs moving forward 

so you need three mobile and sure footed CB .. not three players off form 

And he had that in Russia and in fairness Walker played well Sunday and last night, also Coady was a good selection.

HM is out of form but actually did ok on Sunday so I can understand why he went for him.

The issue is more the 2 in front of them, Rice, Phillips, Henderson are all similar in style and I'm happy with 1 of them but they need a more creative player alongside them in a 343, whether that's Winks, Barkley, RLC, JWP, whoever's the choice there has to be a balance.

2 pivots is fine for a 4231 but not a 343.

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2 hours ago, greygoose said:

Wow what a moan, the current England team has more fire power than it has for a number of years. 

Southgate is doing well overall imo but will never please everyone. Some of his players need to start behaving off the field.

Sorry Greygoose but my thread is not a moan, it's stating clear facts!! We were poor - fact, The manager came out and and gave a post match interview and said he was "Proud" of the various things i've listed. 2 players red carded in one game for the first time in our history - fact. Harry Kane, great player but unfit - fact. I'm not moaning but if we want to be successful then reality has tome into play. I dont pretend to be a master tactition but I've been playing and watching the game long enough to know when things arent right. Last night Southgate made some strange decisions - fact!! He took Mount off, probably our creative player last night on the pitch, and put sancho on who was completely absent for 17mins, he didnt touch the ball!!! He took Rashford off and put Calvert Lewin on but had him out on the left wing, and yet he left the only player who may have brought us some joy sat on his ass in the stand!! The thing is we had one substitution left, we only used 4 of the possible 5. Results matter in any game, there are those who are saying it doesnt matter that we lost last night!! Bullshit, all the history books show are results and we lost - fact. My only moan was the kit and that was another mistake.

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5 hours ago, eddie said:

But he can't set up his defence,why do we play right back on left, and when 1 down take Rice off and leave Grealish on bench. He should have admitted he made mistakes and it was poor . 

I don't think Maguire, Mings or Coady have anything like the quality required in central defence to compete against the best teams.

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59 minutes ago, themanwhowasntthere said:

I don't think Maguire, Mings or Coady have anything like the quality required in central defence to compete against the best teams.

Maguire is a good defender he's not in good form at the moment. Same goes for Joe Gomez, that can happen. When they are right they are England's best 2 CB's.

Coady and Mings yes your possibly right,perhaps they are just short of top class international standards.

Shame John Stones didn't kick on, he had a bit of everything, decent defender, quick and a good footballer.

 

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