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What was his name if I don't want to search for him?

If grammar school boys are supposed to be above average intelligence how did so many end up following Town 

Yes, I'm a Heathen too. Surprised we didn't know about this as I'm guessing some of our teachers would have taught him. 

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1 hour ago, Hoddie said:

In my experience the quality of teaching was really variable, some of the teachers were absolutely piss poor. It wouldn't be difficult to believe that most had their attention on the length of skirts or the physical attributes of the sporty lads.

I learned more about maths in two weeks from one supply teacher than I did in five years from the regular one (Mrs Cleft, I'll never forget), absolutely useless. The different methods were eye-opening and everything just seemed to fall into place instantly. Algebra, fractions, matrices, probability, the works. The new English teacher in my final year was absolutely brilliant, really brought the subject alive. I think our year passed English entirely thanks to him. My history teacher Mr Hand was pretty cool, had a passion for history, but was all too happy to leave us behind if we couldn't keep up. I would struggle to say anything good about any of the others.

The school has always had fantastic results though so they must have been doing something right - but you also have to acknowledge that they take the brightest pupils in the area so they have a better chance to begin with. They really messed up taking me in, I dragged their scores down across the board!

Peter Hand was a top bloke ( I must have been there before you as female teachers were still a fantasy). In the upper sixth some of my ‘mates’ decided to ‘hide’ my motorbike by taking upstairs to the library I school house, apparently Mr Hand walked past as if it was an everyday occurrence. Deffo one of the good guys along with John Bunch, Denis Morton and Paul Keenan

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3 hours ago, Angus said:

Peter Hand was a top bloke ( I must have been there before you as female teachers were still a fantasy). In the upper sixth some of my ‘mates’ decided to ‘hide’ my motorbike by taking upstairs to the library I school house, apparently Mr Hand walked past as if it was an everyday occurrence. Deffo one of the good guys along with John Bunch, Denis Morton and Paul Keenan

All four taught me at Heath although didnt get any where in woodwork with Keenan.  In my final o-level year we were taught English by headteacher Bunch.  The year only achieved 25% pass rate in English which was absurd.  Some who scored passes in their mocks were downgraded to 'U's.  Heath appealed two test papers which were immediately passed.  However the School couldnt afford to appeal all the results so those two papers and the others had to either re-sit in the Autumn or do outside of school.  Just accepted it and got on with it unlike events recently.

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9 hours ago, Hoddie said:

Really great game.

It was also good that all you needed was the small hard ball to be able to have a game although it was much more comfortable using the glove.

The courts seemed to get very little use  at Crossleys in the late 50s early 60s.

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12 hours ago, shaykehands said:

All four taught me at Heath although didnt get any where in woodwork with Keenan.  In my final o-level year we were taught English by headteacher Bunch.  The year only achieved 25% pass rate in English which was absurd.  Some who scored passes in their mocks were downgraded to 'U's.  Heath appealed two test papers which were immediately passed.  However the School couldnt afford to appeal all the results so those two papers and the others had to either re-sit in the Autumn or do outside of school.  Just accepted it and got on with it unlike events recently.

Now you tell me!!! I passed my mocks and then failed miserably in the exams with a U in English (I consider myself to be quite articulate lol). I had all those teachers too. 

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I am firmly in the Old Crocs camp in regards to the subject of football as I went to Crossley’s from 67 to 72, before all this nonsense of merging with the enemy.

For a rugby only school it was striking that the predominant game played in the school playground was football not touch rugby, for the older years when you were allowed onto the Moor at lunchtime again it was football that prevailed.

As already mentioned we also formed an unofficial team when in year 5 and the lower 6th, playing a number of friendly games, one being away at a school in Ossett, which we travelled to by public bus, as we could not afford a coach.

At the same time the daily conversations were always about how Town were doing and not rugby. There were a few staunch fans among my friends and we even used to go to the reserve games as well as first team matches.

Like many others on here I used to play a lot of Fives, and got many a strange look when trying to explain to my mates  back on Furness Drive what we did in our spare time at that poncey school on the other side of town

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On 9/13/2020 at 10:37 AM, Hoddie said:

I went to Crossley-Heath School but have only just learned that Great Britain's first black international (playing for Scotland) was educated at Heath School in Halifax back in the 1860s. His name was Andrew Watson if you want to search for him.

Hoddie, you might find this interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3cszd3m

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On 9/18/2020 at 1:12 AM, ITMAN said:

I am firmly in the Old Crocs camp in regards to the subject of football as I went to Crossley’s from 67 to 72, before all this nonsense of merging with the enemy.

For a rugby only school it was striking that the predominant game played in the school playground was football not touch rugby, for the older years when you were allowed onto the Moor at lunchtime again it was football that prevailed.

As already mentioned we also formed an unofficial team when in year 5 and the lower 6th, playing a number of friendly games, one being away at a school in Ossett, which we travelled to by public bus, as we could not afford a coach.

At the same time the daily conversations were always about how Town were doing and not rugby. There were a few staunch fans among my friends and we even used to go to the reserve games as well as first team matches.

Like many others on here I used to play a lot of Fives, and got many a strange look when trying to explain to my mates  back on Furness Drive what we did in our spare time at that poncey school on the other side of town

I too was at Crossley’s from ‘67-74. 

There were lots of Town fans there .

When we infamously Lost 2-1 to Wigan Athletic in the FA Cup, one lad organised a coach to the match. 

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On 9/13/2020 at 12:22 PM, Hoddie said:

Halifax AFC was founded in 1894, lasted until 1898 or thereabouts. Halifax was not a hotbed of association football at the time but quite a few footballers lived in the district, including one who was described as having been amongst those to have played soccer the longest. This period would have been in the twilight of this player's career but I wondered if he'd returned to Halifax to play for the club, but as I say it's recorded that by then he was in London playing as a professional. I don't know anything about him other than what I've read this morning, but seems he got Bootle into trouble as they were paying him to play before that was allowed. It only became allowed because the FA feared a 'schism' similar to what happened in rugby - where the northern clubs seceded so they could play in a league (hence rugby league) and pay their players.

Have seen a couple of old Yorkshire League tables with this 'Halifax' in and am intrigued about them but couldn't find any info, did wonder if they were an offshoot of the rugby club as that kind of thing was fairly common round about then but haven't seen any such notion in any (admittedly brief) HRLFC histories I've read. Do you, Shaymus or any other Town historians know any more about them?

http://www.bradfordfc.org.uk/html/1895-961.html

http://www.bradfordfc.org.uk/html/1897-982.html

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50 minutes ago, steve lumb said:

Hoddie, you might find this interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3cszd3m

For a 'readable' version which I think shaykehands mentioned on BBC website, see also https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/3k9u8lh178/Searching_for_my_slave_roots

Re: Crossley/Heath, my time at the (merged) school was pretty much all rugby in the winter term for the first 3 years, which was OK until the other boys started to grow bigger and I didn't... at the start of the 4th year the better rugby players went off to do that and us mere mortals did hockey, for 2 weeks, which I really enjoyed, but when they then offered us a vote on hockey or football, as we'd all been so starved of it I think to a man we voted football and I've never played hockey since. We did do fives occasionally which I enjoyed, was miles better than at it than squash for some reason, but the gloves were so worn out as to be not worth the bother and the courts were always arctic. As for the swimming pool, well it was reopened briefly while I was there and we went in and after 15 minutes we all came out nose and eyes red and streaming and some poor kids with breathing difficulties thanks to the vapourised chemicals and we never went back in!

As for teachers, Mr Kay (geography teacher/part-time rugby coach) had legendary status while I was there, and there were a small bunch of us from my year who used to go down the Shay regularly towards the back end of the 90s, sometimes joined by English teacher Mr Dignum who I seem to remember going mental at one goal along with the rest of us on the bus garage end tarmac (v Northwich?) in the Conference title season, even though I think he was mainly a Leeds fan? Not going to mention the 'extra curricular' activities which seem to have occurred at the school, except to say one of the incidents already mentioned happened while I was at the school, though it's clearly fair to say it's not the only school this kind of thing happened at (and the school tried not to advertise too widely...)

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45 minutes ago, Shayman Matt said:

For a 'readable' version which I think shaykehands mentioned on BBC website, see also https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/3k9u8lh178/Searching_for_my_slave_roots

Re: Crossley/Heath, my time at the (merged) school was pretty much all rugby in the winter term for the first 3 years, which was OK until the other boys started to grow bigger and I didn't... at the start of the 4th year the better rugby players went off to do that and us mere mortals did hockey, for 2 weeks, which I really enjoyed, but when they then offered us a vote on hockey or football, as we'd all been so starved of it I think to a man we voted football and I've never played hockey since. We did do fives occasionally which I enjoyed, was miles better than at it than squash for some reason, but the gloves were so worn out as to be not worth the bother and the courts were always arctic. As for the swimming pool, well it was reopened briefly while I was there and we went in and after 15 minutes we all came out nose and eyes red and streaming and some poor kids with breathing difficulties thanks to the vapourised chemicals and we never went back in!

As for teachers, Mr Kay (geography teacher/part-time rugby coach) had legendary status while I was there, and there were a small bunch of us from my year who used to go down the Shay regularly towards the back end of the 90s, sometimes joined by English teacher Mr Dignum who I seem to remember going mental at one goal along with the rest of us on the bus garage end tarmac (v Northwich?) in the Conference title season, even though I think he was mainly a Leeds fan? Not going to mention the 'extra curricular' activities which seem to have occurred at the school, except to say one of the incidents already mentioned happened while I was at the school, though it's clearly fair to say it's not the only school this kind of thing happened at (and the school tried not to advertise too widely...)

Mr Dignum was the one who dragged me through English. He was a much better teacher than the previous English teachers.

56 minutes ago, Shayman Matt said:

Have seen a couple of old Yorkshire League tables with this 'Halifax' in and am intrigued about them but couldn't find any info, did wonder if they were an offshoot of the rugby club as that kind of thing was fairly common round about then but haven't seen any such notion in any (admittedly brief) HRLFC histories I've read. Do you, Shaymus or any other Town historians know any more about them?

http://www.bradfordfc.org.uk/html/1895-961.html

http://www.bradfordfc.org.uk/html/1897-982.html

Nothing to do with the rugby club, I know a little bit about them because I was trying to see if there was any connection with the later Halifax Town, even if just a director or something like that, but so far I've found nothing. Formed in 1894, first chairman was Dr Whitcombe, played at the Kingston Ground (still exists). They initially played only ordinary matches (friendlies) until, I believe, they joined the West Riding Amateur Association League, taking the place of Castleford Albion - I haven't confirmed this last point but it was certainly talked about. One of the earliest results I've traced is a 7-0 win over Leeds North in October 1894. I'm pretty sure their first game was against Altofts but I don't have the result yet. See attached.

1 hour ago, steve lumb said:

Hoddie, you might find this interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3cszd3m

I'll have a listen later, cheers.

1894-08-30 Yorkshire Evening Post.PNG

1894-09-01 Halifax Guardian.PNG

1894-09-14 Yorkshire Evening Post.PNG

1894-09-21 Yorkshire Evening Post.PNG

1894-09-27 Yorkshire Evening Post.PNG

1894-10-02 Halifax Evening Courier.PNG

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Oh yeah, there was one thing I wanted to check but forgot about, is the Mr Moir on the committee actually Dr Muir, Halifax Town's first President? Misspelled names were common enough back then. That would be a concrete link between the clubs. 

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1 hour ago, Hoddie said:

Reading back through these I'm wondering if Leeds North was another name for Altofts. I'll have to check the dates and see what I can dig up. 

Hoddie, Altofts is between Wakefield and Pontefract, so I suspect ti would have no association to "North Leeds".

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6 hours ago, Hoddie said:

Mr Dignum was the one who dragged me through English. He was a much better teacher than the previous English teachers.

Nothing to do with the rugby club, I know a little bit about them because I was trying to see if there was any connection with the later Halifax Town, even if just a director or something like that, but so far I've found nothing. Formed in 1894, first chairman was Dr Whitcombe, played at the Kingston Ground (still exists). They initially played only ordinary matches (friendlies) until, I believe, they joined the West Riding Amateur Association League, taking the place of Castleford Albion - I haven't confirmed this last point but it was certainly talked about. One of the earliest results I've traced is a 7-0 win over Leeds North in October 1894. I'm pretty sure their first game was against Altofts but I don't have the result yet. See attached.

I'll have a listen later, cheers.

1894-08-30 Yorkshire Evening Post.PNG

1894-09-01 Halifax Guardian.PNG

1894-09-14 Yorkshire Evening Post.PNG

1894-09-21 Yorkshire Evening Post.PNG

1894-09-27 Yorkshire Evening Post.PNG

1894-10-02 Halifax Evening Courier.PNG

Mr B was broadly supportive at the time until the mention of "the club will provide the outfit!"

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39 minutes ago, Hands Off The Shay said:

Interesting that the Black Swan Inn is mentioned as there is still Black Swan passage at the side of Yates.

I remember a Kingston Bowling club which I think was up Hopwood Lane but not sure if it still exists. I think King Cross RLFC play there now.

Kingston was the name given to where King Cross CC played but the name does seem to have fallen out of use. I'm 99% sure it's the same place given everything I've read. The ground has played host to football on and off over the years.

And that's exactly where the Black Swan Inn was - it closed after WW1 and the building has been subsumed by Yates.

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One of the articles mentions a counter attraction at Brighouse - this was a rugby match - Brighouse NUFC were a strong local side, like Salterhebble FC, both of whom had a pretty good record against Halifax NUFC. Salterhebble played at the Exley ground for at least 25 years ,which later became used by Halifax Town.

It's fair to say that the West Riding was late to the association game, Halifax being no exception to this. Halifax AFC was a pioneer of the sport in the district, and shortly after their founding dozens of other local clubs sprung up to cater for the young adults who showed more interest in soccer than rugby - and such numbers were growing because almost all schools had switched codes, presumably because soccer was a gentler, cleaner, easier to manage game (though that's just a guess). By the time Halifax Town came along in 1911, the Halifax and District FA had long been preparing for the day - they had already agreed a long lease on Sandhall Lane to host local cup finals and other important games, and had been encouraging supporters of the game to show their support for a town club. By 1911, soccer had permeated throughout the district, with several strong local sides competing in West Riding competitions - Boothtown, Sowerby Bridge, Eastwood, Hebden Bridge, Siddal and St Jude's just from memory.

The strong local football scene actually worked against Halifax Town in a way, because so many potential supporters were actually playing football instead of watching it. But in some ways it also helped - Town had a good number of local players who had learned the game from these local clubs.

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3 hours ago, Hoddie said:

Kingston was the name given to where King Cross CC played but the name does seem to have fallen out of use. I'm 99% sure it's the same place given everything I've read. The ground has played host to football on and off over the years.

And that's exactly where the Black Swan Inn was - it closed after WW1 and the building has been subsumed by Yates.

Pretty sure King Cross CC played at The Ramsdens - I played there under 14's onwards. Kingston Club is the next building up and was formerly Asquith & Butler Social Club from memory. 

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11 minutes ago, chadders said:

Pretty sure King Cross CC played at The Ramsdens - I played there under 14's onwards. Kingston Club is the next building up and was formerly Asquith & Butler Social Club from memory. 

Well I dunno about now but King Cross CC played from a ground called Kingston on Hopwood Lane in the 1890s and 1900s, and that's where Halifax AFC played their home games, at least some of them. At the time Kings Cross CC were more successful than Halifax CC (Thrum Hall) and Elland CC so they got a fair bit of coverage in the Courier. At least, this is what I've taken from reading 1,000s of newspapers from the period. I've paid a little attention to the local cricket clubs because a fair few of Town's footballers played cricket in the summer months (Town had a Leicestershire CC player on their books for a few of those early seasons), and sometimes you can pick up a player's first name, or find out when they left the district and maybe where they went.

The thing about research like this is you could read 100 news articles, be absolutely sure about something, only for the 101st article to prove it to be absolutely wrong. Only last week we patched together the career details of one of Town's earliest trainers, who for some reason started using his mother's maiden name after leaving the club. A blockage suddenly disappeared, and whereas previously all we had was a name, now we had the guy's personal details and a potted history. Turns out he was a 100 yard dash sprint champion and had emigrated to Canada, and that all came from a single hint from a midlands newspaper that was stumbled on by accident, tied up expertly by Johnny Meynell and his incredible research experience.

I'm prepared to learn that Kingston was not where King Cross CC played (or even where Halifax AFC played) but at this point I'm 99% sure about both claims.

Further work on Halifax AFC really is for another day though, at least for me.

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1 minute ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

May be wrong Hoddie but I thought my first father-in-law played for Kingston BC it was all Asquith workers and they played at thrum hall bowling green.

I haven't followed bowling clubs :)

Salterhebble rugby club played in Exley, Kings Cross played at Kingston - Grimsby play in Cleethorpes. Sometimes it's simply that you play where you can. I think for my own peace of mind I'm gonna have to dig out a contemporary report which confirms Kings Cross played at Kingston!

http://www.uk-socialclubs.co.uk/halls/HX/94300.php

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