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20 minutes ago, Erik Everhard said:

If the murder of George Floyd was a racist murder then it comes under the wing of BLM. If it wasn't then it doesn't. It is then police brutality which resulted in murder. 

I am well aware of racism that goes on in the US. I have black friends over there and we've discussed the issue and they've decribed what it's like. 

But that's not what I'm talking about. i'm talking about the murder of an American citizen by a police officer, which then resulted in 5 African Americans being murdered by other African American criminals and murderers. All of those people tried to help others but paid the ultimate price. 

When I watched the footage of George Floyd being murdered I had to look away. That wasn't faux outrage it sickened me. 

When I watched the footage of the white disabled woman that was trapped in a doorway snd repeatedly punched in the face and had objects thrown at her head by African Americans and then had a full foam fire extinguisher fired over her it sickened me. No faux outrage there either. I wish I could have stopped all of those things from happening but I couldn't and that sickens me. 

 

I’m reading that 18 people murdered in Chicago at the weekend. Frightening.

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Dont worry, Ive worked out what you are like. We are repeatedly told by people like yourself how divided we are as a country. But this division is stoked and encouraged by people like yourself. A

I've copied this, author unknown, but I agree with every word:- According to the BBC today, I'm complicit in hate and racist crimes because I'm White and I won't join in with the meaningless piec

And when we cut through all the ****, this is the main problem. We should be offended that in 2020 people are not being treated equal. We should be looking at how we resolve this, how we stop the

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18 minutes ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

Just asking where the book stops re the statues, As I say when I was growing up he was one of the top most wanted men in the world, akin to Arafat & Saddam Hussain.

Wanted by the SA government!

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3 hours ago, chrisbo61 said:

So you are saying the allied forces didnt trash all the nazi emblems as they re took europe in 44?

I dont actually care what they trashed that was anything to do with our enemies and particularly the most evil people that ever walked the face of this planet. Nazi emblems, dont even dare go there.

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1 hour ago, Hoddie said:

 

People are pulling at straws looking for distractions to avoid having to discuss the actual central issue that affects 100s of millions of people every day. 

And when we cut through all the ****, this is the main problem.

We should be offended that in 2020 people are not being treated equal. We should be looking at how we resolve this, how we stop the "us and them" narrative and feelings. 

For many I think any difference in how we treat each other is probably done subconsciously and through learnt behaviour and routine, rather than intended racism. This is the thing we should be trying to challenge - to try and understand how the little things we do without thinking disadvantage others. 

Rioting, looting or pulling statues down simply allows people to cry "this isn't acceptable, that isn't acceptable" and to detract from the real issue that needs to be addressed - the equality. 

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14 minutes ago, TommyH72 said:

I dont actually care what they trashed that was anything to do with our enemies and particularly the most evil people that ever walked the face of this planet. Nazi emblems, dont even dare go there.

Calm down bud, mek a brew!

All I was doing was pointing out that destruction of symbols of your perceived enemy is what happens, be it slave traders, enemies during wartime etc. 

In the grand scheme of things it's a lump of brass.

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11 hours ago, Flea said:

We should be offended that in 2020 people are not being treated equal. We should be looking at how we resolve this, how we stop the "us and them" narrative and feelings. 

We partly have to look at the past and where we have come from. I know Chris doesnt agree, but with regards inequality and racism, this country has hugely improved over the decades. Without doubt we are one of the most tolerant and fair countries in the world which is why we have been so attractive as a country for immigration. 

At the core of our democracy the progress is there to see. There have been 96 ethnic minority MPs in parliament over the years, 65 I believe are serving in the current parliament. The London Mayor is from a Sunni Muslim family. Admittadely (according to the Guardian) only 4% of the most powerful jobs in the UK are held by people from ethnic minorities but there isnt a switch that you can flick to suddenly make a problem disappear. It is by gradual progress through education and adapting.

You only have to think back to 'comedies' from the 70s and possibly 80s to understand how bad things were just 3 or 4 decades ago. The BBC, and TV in general, has possibly become a bit too PC but thankfully racism is no longer an acceptable form of joke. This is part of the education factor - imagine as a child watching Alf Garnett call a black person a 'coon' or a 'wog' on the TV?

The reason I say we have to look at the past is because I believe, generation by generation, as the old ways of thinking are diluted, we become even more tolerant as a country. As the older generation, with their bigoted ways, die, we become a more understanding country. Less likely to judge a person by their colour of skin or religion. Obviously there will always be an element who want to 'keep Britain white' - racism will never become extinct. However, we have to keep some context.

We are seeing some ridiculous virtue signalling which is not healing, but further creating divide. Labour led councils reviewing all statues to see if any can be deemed offensive. One in London was removed yesterday tea time - for over a century it had stood in position but suddenly deemed inappropriate. I dont overly care about statues but its a dangerous game to suddenly start second guessing what some people see as an 'offensive' statue and take them down with little or no consultation.

We need some calm, sense and context otherwise the country will just go backwards on this important issue.

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46 minutes ago, Bubba said:

At the core of our democracy the progress is there to see. There have been 96 ethnic minority MPs in parliament over the years, 65 I believe are serving in the current parliament. The London Mayor is from a Sunni Muslim family. Admittadely (according to the Guardian) only 4% of the most powerful jobs in the UK are held by people from ethnic minorities but there isnt a switch that you can flick to suddenly make a problem disappear. It is by gradual progress through education and adapting.

I don't disagree with the point you're making, the UK has made huge strides compared to some other countries, and the current diversity in Parliament is reflective of this. However, have you seen the constant abuse that figures like Sadiq Khan regularly receive on social media? There's an awful long way to go before this country can claim to have won the fight against racism, and it's not just a generational thing either. My niece recently left school and her group of friends includes people from all ethnic groups, and I'm not kidding this would have been unthinkable when I was at school 30 years ago so it's definitely progress. But many people her age still grow up in households where racist attitudes are prevalent, with racism embedded at a formative age. Only the best education can combat that and, sadly, that kind of education is still looked down upon in the UK as being unnecessarily liberal.

We know that racism is deeply embedded in some key sectors such as the housing market and high street retailing. We know there are issues with police and there's some evidence of similar issues within the ambulance service too. Adult education is another, social services and probation too, and even the judiciary seems to have the 'US' problem where some criminals get markedly different sentences seemingly based on race alone (though incredibly difficult to prove).

We won't solve this problem unless we stop fixating on the side issues. Of course they're important but they shouldn't divert from the main issue. It's like playing a computer game with a main quest and 1,000s of optional side quests. If you do all those optional ones, the main quest just keeps getting kicked into the long grass. You get there eventually but much, much later than was possible.

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5 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

However, have you seen the constant abuse that figures like Sadiq Khan regularly receive on social media?

Its not exclusive to Khan and whilst there may be racism behind some of the abuse the majority of it will be because people think he is a dick. I would say Boris Johnson gets equally as much abuse for the very same reason and who is not to say that racism isnt behind some of it? Racism isnt exclusive to those of ethnic minority backgrounds.

Again, it works both ways. I have seen people who have called out the toppling of statues as being racist just because they dont believe mob rule is acceptable. Being accused of being pro-slavery just because they dont agree in the mindless destruction of a monument which has stood for centuries. Those who like to be offended on behalf of others do nothing for the cause.

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7 minutes ago, Bubba said:

Its not exclusive to Khan and whilst there may be racism behind some of the abuse the majority of it will be because people think he is a dick. I would say Boris Johnson gets equally as much abuse for the very same reason and who is not to say that racism isnt behind some of it? Racism isnt exclusive to those of ethnic minority backgrounds.

Again, it works both ways. I have seen people who have called out the toppling of statues as being racist just because they dont believe mob rule is acceptable. Being accused of being pro-slavery just because they dont agree in the mindless destruction of a monument which has stood for centuries. Those who like to be offended on behalf of others do nothing for the cause.

Thing is though, most of these statues have been the subject of campaigns to have them removed for years, and nothing has been done, these protests have obviously worked.

 

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4 minutes ago, chrisbo61 said:

Thing is though, most of these statues have been the subject of campaigns to have them removed for years, and nothing has been done, these protests have obviously worked.

 

Yes there have been petitions and campaigns but that doesnt suddenly mean everyone agrees with removing them.

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17 minutes ago, Bubba said:

Its not exclusive to Khan and whilst there may be racism behind some of the abuse the majority of it will be because people think he is a dick.

Come off it.

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Just now, Hoddie said:

Come off it.

You may believe the UK is more backward than it actually is, but I dont. The abuse he gets will be on a par with what Johnson will have got when he was in office. Twitter is an absolute cesspit and I see the mud slung on all sides.

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4 minutes ago, Bubba said:

You may believe the UK is more backward than it actually is, but I dont. The abuse he gets will be on a par with what Johnson will have got when he was in office. Twitter is an absolute cesspit and I see the mud slung on all sides.

Research carried out in 2018 into abuse against women politicians and journalists on Twitter found that black women were disproportionately targeted, being 84% more likely than white women to be mentioned in abusive or problematic tweets. I suppose people just thought they were all dicks?

Almost two-thirds of black and minority ethnic MPs say they have experienced some form of racism while working in parliament, while half say they have faced it from fellow MPs, according to a study carried out by ITV.

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38 minutes ago, chrisbo61 said:

Thing is though, most of these statues have been the subject of campaigns to have them removed for years, and nothing has been done, these protests have obviously worked.

 

Now that is a worry. What will it be in the future Kill the mayor, kill the PM?

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56 minutes ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

Now that is a worry. What will it be in the future Kill the mayor, kill the PM?

Chrisbo seems to be advocating the extermination of anything you don't like (maybe he should sign up for the American police force)

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58 minutes ago, Wilder Bollox said:

Chrisbo seems to be advocating the extermination of anything you don't like (maybe he should sign up for the American police force)

I think the point he's making is this:- when most people accept and agree that there are legitimate grievances, but still nothing happens, you intensify your protests. And again, and so on and so on. Until, eventually, things boil over and unilateral action is taken. It's not as though this was the first time that statue was the subject of protests, yet despite even local politicians agreeing that they should have acted, nobody did. It's still criminal damage, and those involved should pay the price for it, but what happened was avoidable had the people in a position to do so acted on those legitimate grievances in a timely manner.

Can I see a point where the assassination of a British Prime Minister was justified, morally even if not legally? Of course. Should this country be taken along the Communist route where absolute power rests with a handful of people, with no hope of change in sight, then yes, after protests are ignored and legal challenges fail, where the whole state apparatus is constructed so as to protect those people, that would be the right time for the general public to take action.

But it's hyperbolic, we hope to never see such days in the UK. But we also forget that similar things have happened in other countries.

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3 hours ago, Bubba said:

Yes there have been petitions and campaigns but that doesnt suddenly mean everyone agrees with removing them.

So you support celebrating the slave trade? Surely anyone with a moral compass is against that sort of thing!

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