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shaykehands

Are we in a better state than most?

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Maybe a regional split for a couple of seasons then look to national league model going forward 

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4 minutes ago, Jmc said:

Maybe a regional split for a couple of seasons then look to national league model going forward 

You can still retain the "National League" theme, but use the regional basis for economic reasons. We already have NL North/South, so taking this one step up the pyramid will be the least disruptive. When you consider that around 11 of the EFL Div 2 clubs are averaging less than 4,000 per home game then the gap between the lower div in the EFL and the National League is not that big. With a switch to regional leagues then the smaller clubs would see a benefit in terms of higher income from increased attendances plus lower costs from less travelling. 

This would still leave a path to progress into EFL Div 1 on the same way as it is now. $ Teams still go up only 2 from each regional division. To maintain the end of season income, a playoff situation as used in the National League could be used, top goes up the next 6 playoff for the second place.

We end up with the same result has we have now in the EFL.  

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1 hour ago, Wilder Bollox said:

If you were basing it upon crowds and overheads you'd have County Leagues . If you were basing it upon ambition and competitiveness you'd have National Leagues . I'm a fan of the latter and if we want the former we can do so quite simply by getting relegated every season in search of  exciting games at Goole, Silsden, Park Avenue, Eccleshill, Barnoldwick, Tadcaster....... 

The points being made are that regional leagues higher up the pyramid would be beneficial. How does that turn into people wanting a local derby at Silsden?

Its a no brainer and has been for years, there should not be a National league even more so now.

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6 minutes ago, greygoose said:

The points being made are that regional leagues higher up the pyramid would be beneficial. How does that turn into people wanting a local derby at Silsden?

Its a no brainer and has been for years, there should not be a National league even more so now.

In essence you want clubs to generate more income so that they can purchase better players and (pay higher wages ?)

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1 hour ago, Wilder Bollox said:

If you were basing it upon crowds and overheads you'd have County Leagues . If you were basing it upon ambition and competitiveness you'd have National Leagues . I'm a fan of the latter and if we want the former we can do so quite simply by getting relegated every season in search of  exciting games at Goole, Silsden, Park Avenue, Eccleshill, Barnoldwick, Tadcaster....... 

Or you could show desire and ambition with the extra cash and get promoted to a higher league that would give you national challenges again.

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Fylde Chairman now claims the a mere millionaire cannot compete at this level anymore and moans about billionaires putting their money in, pot kettle comes to mind.

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20 minutes ago, Wilder Bollox said:

In essence you want clubs to generate more income so that they can purchase better players and (pay higher wages ?)

I just don't see the point in small clubs like ours spending 3-4k on and an overnight trip to Dover to play in front of 50 away fans when a reshuffle could mean Chester away instead.

Of course i want us to generate more income, dont we all?

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46 minutes ago, Wilder Bollox said:

In essence you want clubs to generate more income so that they can purchase better players and (pay higher wages ?)

That is another discussion, should clubs at this level institute a "salary cap"? It should be included in the Financial Fair Play process that the EFL espouse.

Maybe, you could attract better talented players as you can offer them a shop window for clubs higher up the pyramid rather than just offering them money, after all we can all see what the forum members think of players who are mercenary in their ambitions. Is that the fault of agents, short term gain as opposed to the long term security?

Edited by ITMAN

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4 minutes ago, ITMAN said:

That is another discussion, should clubs at this level institute a "salary cap"? It should be included in the Financial Fair Play process that the EFL espouse.

Maybe, you could attract better talented players as you can offer them a shop window for clubs higher up the pyramid rather than just offering them money, after all we can all see what the forum members think of players who are mercenary in their ambitions. Is that the fault of agents, short term gain as opposed to the long term security?

You would have to foremost get rid of agents or make players pay for them.

Edited by Steve Lanzarote

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30 minutes ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

Fylde Chairman now claims the a mere millionaire cannot compete at this level anymore and moans about billionaires putting their money in, pot kettle comes to mind.

Not sure what you mean with the pot kettle comment Steve, but as for just being a millionaire in football these days isn't enough to sustain a club. I really has become a billionaires playground. I dont mean this as a flippant comment, but a million pounds is not a lot of money in this day and age. 

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1 minute ago, TommyH72 said:

Not sure what you mean with the pot kettle comment Steve, but as for just being a millionaire in football these days isn't enough to sustain a club. I really has become a billionaires playground. I dont mean this as a flippant comment, but a million pounds is not a lot of money in this day and age. 

Pot kettle re he was one of the chairman to create the problem in the first place, I don't believe there are many Billionaires if any at this level, not many outside the Premiership I would say.

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3 minutes ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

Pot kettle re he was one of the chairman to create the problem in the first place, I don't believe there are many Billionaires if any at this level, not many outside the Premiership I would say.

Ah, I see!! I dont know anything about the guy to honest, but I do know that Fylde were one of the clubs that went mad spending cart loads of cash on players wages etc and its ended up backfiring spectacularly on them. I have just read the piece and I cant say I disagree with ant of his comments. He has other business interests that are more important to him as they are what provide his income. And the staff that work in his other business's are just as important if not more so that the players. I do have to say though that I'm not a big fan of this player "bating" from the point of view of trying to force them to take pay cuts etc, players at our level of the game are not earning the huge sums that FL teams earn. Its a complicated business and it might just trigger some reality checks as we move into the future.

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46 minutes ago, greygoose said:

I just don't see the point in small clubs like ours spending 3-4k on and an overnight trip to Dover to play in front of 50 away fans when a reshuffle could mean Chester away instead.

Of course i want us to generate more income, dont we all?

One of the other factors I am aiming to include in the North-South debate is to show the impact in terms of reducing the travelling distances, and hence costs, for clubs between what they have now and what they would have if split on a regional basis.

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I personally think it's immoral that one employee can be paid more in a week than the same business would pay another employee in an entire lifetime. £400,000 per week plus expenses, tax paid, etc. for one, and £8.72 an hour for another. I'm all in favour of capitalism but this is indefensible. All stakeholders in the game - the FA, the supporters and the clubs themselves need to take a long, hard look at the industry. But it won't happen.

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16 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

I personally think it's immoral that one employee can be paid more in a week than the same business would pay another employee in an entire lifetime. £400,000 per week plus expenses, tax paid, etc. for one, and £8.72 an hour for another. I'm all in favour of capitalism but this is indefensible. All stakeholders in the game - the FA, the supporters and the clubs themselves need to take a long, hard look at the industry. But it won't happen.

There is a lot to be asked as well though Hoddie of the supporters who basically condone all of this. They want instant success, but at what cost to the game. I agree wholeheartedly that there is now an opportunity for the game as an industry to restructure itself. Players wages are a supply and demand issue. Get rid of agents for starters, if clubs refuse to deal with them then they have no place.

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Get rid of agents, brilliant, they take money out of the game and put zero back in, I'm all for it.

On the subject of regional leagues, another brilliant one.  Apart from the obvious savings to clubs in terms of travel and overnight stays and the cost of fuel to supporters there is the big picture of reducing carbon footprint.  A lot less fuel for a 80-100 mile journey than a 200+ one.  Get Greta Thingy involved, she'll sort 'em out

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3 minutes ago, bazza45 said:

Get rid of agents, brilliant, they take money out of the game and put zero back in, I'm all for it.

On the subject of regional leagues, another brilliant one.  Apart from the obvious savings to clubs in terms of travel and overnight stays and the cost of fuel to supporters there is the big picture of reducing carbon footprint.  A lot less fuel for a 80-100 mile journey than a 200+ one.  Get Greta Thingy involved, she'll sort 'em out

Bazza, I missed that one. If I add in the carbon footprint reductions then it becomes an even bigger no brainer, well for us mere mortals anyway. Now Boris is back maybe he can take up the fight, alongside no more expansion at Heathrow and getting rid of HS2/3.

On another note, has anyone ever seen any work done around what the club brings into the local economy, there must be a boost on match days to shops and pubs/cafes etc?

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1 hour ago, ITMAN said:

Bazza, I missed that one. If I add in the carbon footprint reductions then it becomes an even bigger no brainer, well for us mere mortals anyway. Now Boris is back maybe he can take up the fight, alongside no more expansion at Heathrow and getting rid of HS2/3.

On another note, has anyone ever seen any work done around what the club brings into the local economy, there must be a boost on match days to shops and pubs/cafes etc?

I realise that the carbon footprint of a few thousand lower league football fans is almost insignificant compared to that of aeroplanes etc but we would be doing our bit and perhaps gain some "brownie points" with the authorities.

As far as benefit to the local community is concerned, this can work both ways.  If you have travelled 80-100 miles, 1.5 to 2 hours you are less likely to want food and drink than if you have driven for 6 hours from Dover for example.  Plus from Dover you will need petrol to get back home, from Chester you will still have enough in the tank.

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47 minutes ago, bazza45 said:

I realise that the carbon footprint of a few thousand lower league football fans is almost insignificant compared to that of aeroplanes etc but we would be doing our bit and perhaps gain some "brownie points" with the authorities.

As far as benefit to the local community is concerned, this can work both ways.  If you have travelled 80-100 miles, 1.5 to 2 hours you are less likely to want food and drink than if you have driven for 6 hours from Dover for example.  Plus from Dover you will need petrol to get back home, from Chester you will still have enough in the tank.

Not if you drive this!

Screenshot_20200427-135533_Google.jpg

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The only downside I could see from having regionalisation is the potential increase in policing costs. With more local derbies and potential rivalries would come the potential increase in idiots wanting to cause trouble. Torquay visiting the Shay on a Saturday afternoon would pose zero threat whereas Bradford City would bring challenges. 

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49 minutes ago, Bubba said:

The only downside I could see from having regionalisation is the potential increase in policing costs. With more local derbies and potential rivalries would come the potential increase in idiots wanting to cause trouble. Torquay visiting the Shay on a Saturday afternoon would pose zero threat whereas Bradford City would bring challenges. 

There are ways around it but that could be a problem. 

New laws to prevent them entering the ground would be better then if they decide to give each other a hiding they can do it outside the ground. 

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4 hours ago, Steve Lanzarote said:

Pot kettle re he was one of the chairman to create the problem in the first place, I don't believe there are many Billionaires if any at this level, not many outside the Premiership I would say.

He was fine with paying big money wages to players while he was top dog for it in the conference but then along came Salford paying even more stupid money to players and when he couldn't compete he didn't like it.

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