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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52049672

People think businessmen plough money in to football clubs as a gesture of goodwill......it doesnt happen, its a loan as DB did and does to keep the club going on a day to day basis. Those loans become repayable at some point and when the club can't do that then thats where the problems start. I'm not saying Huddersfield can't pay the money owed to Hoyle as im sure they can with the parachute payments but lets say they get relegated this season and things get worse. Anyone who wants 'investors' here, read this because there will be others who are not Dean Hoyle who would let a club die for their money back. I'm not saying Hoyle is like this at all and i don't think he is but others will be. 

 

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I can never understand why people think that Football Clubs are anything other than businesses. Anyone who has ever been a Director of a reasonably sized company understands very well the pros and cons. People on the shop floor seem to think that every Director is absolutely minted. Football Clubs get far more leniency from many quarters that the average business does. Being the Director of a Football Club must be one of the hardest positions to put yourself in, the fan base expect money to be poured in with no return. Very naive. If you invest in something then yes you fully understand the pitfalls, but the real main objective is to make money. We happen to have a very good BoD. Worth bearing in mind. 

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1 hour ago, TommyH72 said:

I can never understand why people think that Football Clubs are anything other than businesses.


 

How many people see themselves as customers of the business though. Whilst in essence that’s what we are I would hazard a guess at not many. 

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23 minutes ago, neilstewart said:


 

How many people see themselves as customers of the business though. Whilst in essence that’s what we are I would hazard a guess at not many. 

Your quite right Neil. It is a business, you can dress it up any which way but that's what it is. And while many clubs down at our level are struggling in the current situation there are far more businesses struggling just as much but with no real assistance from governing bodies etc.

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Hoyle will want his brass back but don’t think he’ll see Huddersfield really struggle if they can’t pay , and potless Phil my old mate certainly not got that sort of till to repay him 

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7 hours ago, neilstewart said:


 

How many people see themselves as customers of the business though. Whilst in essence that’s what we are I would hazard a guess at not many. 

There is a huge difference between being a customer and a supporter. I am a customer of Tesco but do not go around visiting other Tesco stores (grounds) unless I have to by necessity. Nor do I wear a tesco shirt or sing songs about them. As a customer I would not consider myself to be passionate about them either.

However, as a supporter, I have a vested interest in how well the business is doing, or not doing. I also have an emotional bond with the "business", something the Tesco's and Sainsbury's of this world would give their eye teeth to be able to have with their customers.

So whilst a football club should be run as a business, it is a special case, which sometimes defies any business logic or best practise, which is why the most successful clubs, big and small, all of a common thread, they have an owner who actually cares about what happens to the club. Take the late Jack Walker at Blackburn, he put his money where his heart was and was a shining example of how to run a club and yet retain the "family" identity and values within the club. 

Edited by ITMAN

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13 hours ago, ITMAN said:

There is a huge difference between being a customer and a supporter. I am a customer of Tesco but do not go around visiting other Tesco stores (grounds) unless I have to by necessity. Nor do I wear a tesco shirt or sing songs about them. As a customer I would not consider myself to be passionate about them either.

However, as a supporter, I have a vested interest in how well the business is doing, or not doing. I also have an emotional bond with the "business", something the Tesco's and Sainsbury's of this world would give their eye teeth to be able to have with their customers.

So whilst a football club should be run as a business, it is a special case, which sometimes defies any business logic or best practise, which is why the most successful clubs, big and small, all of a common thread, they have an owner who actually cares about what happens to the club. Take the late Jack Walker at Blackburn, he put his money where his heart was and was a shining example of how to run a club and yet retain the "family" identity and values within the club. 

I definitely agree with 90% of the sentiment Itman, but, and there is always the but, a Football Club is a business and has to be run as a business first and foremost. The likes of the Jack Walkers are now generally a bygone era, our major clubs are owned by huge corporations whose sole purpose is to make money. They may front it up slightly differently but the real truth is they are businessmen. The great danger is that when they get fed up with lack of success they will drop the clubs and move on and we will end up with loads of clubs like Leeds & Portsmouth. Its a dangerous game to play. Manchester City must be crapping themselves, if they lose their Champions league status chances are the money men will go along with it. But back at our level there are very few clubs that are as well run as FCHT, our BoD may seem to be tight and lacking ambition, I disagree, they have done and continue to do a fantastic job of keeping the club grounded, but they are not multi multi millionaires who can chuck their money around willy nilly. I remember very well Elton John being warned by his accountants back in the late 70's early 80's that he could not continue to support Watford without the risk of going bankrupt, and he choose the sensible path. Hell if someone like Elton cant afford it then what chance have our guys got. The Class of 92 only have 49% of the club at Salford, they are backed by the Billionaire.

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On 3/26/2020 at 4:50 PM, TommyH72 said:

I can never understand why people think that Football Clubs are anything other than businesses. Anyone who has ever been a Director of a reasonably sized company understands very well the pros and cons. People on the shop floor seem to think that every Director is absolutely minted. Football Clubs get far more leniency from many quarters that the average business does. Being the Director of a Football Club must be one of the hardest positions to put yourself in, the fan base expect money to be poured in with no return. Very naive. If you invest in something then yes you fully understand the pitfalls, but the real main objective is to make money. We happen to have a very good BoD. Worth bearing in mind. 

We may have a good BOD but I can bet my house on it that we are not making money. We exist to break even at best, and I wouldn't be surprised if we are running at a loss (disregarding this latest crisis). If Halifax Town / FC Halifax existed to make money we would have closed in 1911.

Football is an expensive hobby for these investors who stay around either because they are fans or for the kudos it gives them amongst their own class. 

It should be a business, but it's not. If it was a business we would have nothing to do on a Saturday because the club wouldn't exist. 

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I understand your train of thought ShaymanX, but the facts are that anything that involves money/finance is business. It maybe that certain people chose to buy clubs for their own kudos, but there is a limit to how much financial loss they can take. Our BoD obviously have set levels that they dont move away from which in my opinion is the correct method to support their hobby. Some people buy cars, boats or whatever it maybe takes their fancy but if you buy a football club you have to have clearly defined limitations. Our guys know theirs and that's why we are where we are. I would rather have these guys running the club than someone who doesn't give a toss, throws loads of money at us then runs away when things go tits up. I would back our BoD any day of the week.

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4 hours ago, shaymen_x said:

We may have a good BOD but I can bet my house on it that we are not making money. We exist to break even at best, and I wouldn't be surprised if we are running at a loss (disregarding this latest crisis). If Halifax Town / FC Halifax existed to make money we would have closed in 1911.

Football is an expensive hobby for these investors who stay around either because they are fans or for the kudos it gives them amongst their own class. 

It should be a business, but it's not. If it was a business we would have nothing to do on a Saturday because the club wouldn't exist. 

The last set of accounts filed at Companies House show an operating loss of £112,000 for the year 2018-19.

In terms of a BoD, there are only 2 directors, and only 1 share has been issued which belongs to DB. Therefore what he says goes.

Compare this with Borehamwood for example, who have 58,698 shares, of which 44,024 belong to Danny Hunter the Chairman and only Director.

In both cases the clubs are owned and run by a single person.

As can clearly be seen in both cases, neither club is making huge sums of money for their owners, the exception being BHW own their own ground so they do have assets worth approx. £2 million.

It is safe to say that it appears the "owners" of both clubs are doing this for altruistic reasons rather than for profit.

There are ways for the club to increase the shareholding of the club without diluting the controlling interest of the current owner, through the issue of a new class of shares. This would allow the supporters of the club to invest in shares which would have no voting rights but would be capable of being paid a dividend, in the rare case of the club turning a profit. Thi would bring in some additional funds that could be used for development of the club and would be a potential for supporters to help to create a new basis for the club to move forward and try to recover from the Covid disaster for the club.

 

 

 

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A share issue would only bring in a one off payment and MrB would never go down that route but Shaymus would be first in the queue of buyers if it were to happen

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1 hour ago, Wilder Bollox said:

A share issue would only bring in a one off payment and MrB would never go down that route but Shaymus would be first in the queue of buyers if it were to happen

Yes, but this is a one off situation.

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I am still waiting for my 500 pounds worth of shares in the old club after one of those crisis meetings. I sometimes wonder just how deep that big black hole was. (never again please).

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22 minutes ago, Viking said:

I am still waiting for my 500 pounds worth of shares in the old club after one of those crisis meetings. I sometimes wonder just how deep that big black hole was. (never again please).

Me too along with grass, bricks etc.

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