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10 minutes ago, Shaytrev said:

Labour blame the Tories for the NHS crisis and possible privatisation.

Well, let us dig into the past to find out if the Tory Party is alone.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR3v42BwwbPkonVlGRbc3NsoUePAlu3w70E-HZbkn8lnJK7yDJRs_W9UV8s

You've got to laugh. Me thinks articles like this should be made more outwardly available and obvious to in particular the young people who Corbyn-mania has swept along into believing everything he says, and choosing to forget (and in their case never know) what happened under previous Labour governments.

 

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8 minutes ago, Twisted Wheel said:

Deary me. Do you think Blair and Corbyn are aligned on their views?

Not in the slightest - but it's the rhetoric of "the Tories are to blame for pretty much everything, especially privatisation of the NHS" which is nonsense. 

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30 minutes ago, greg45 said:

Not in the slightest - but it's the rhetoric of "the Tories are to blame for pretty much everything, especially privatisation of the NHS" which is nonsense. 

The Tories are to blame! They've been in power ten years!

 

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17 minutes ago, chrisbo61 said:

The Tories are to blame! They've been in power ten years!

 

Did you read the article Shaytrev posted?

Whatever government is currently and has recently been in power is to blame, that's how it works. But that alone doesn't advocate a change. It's very easy to stand up and throw rocks at the current government from the opposite benches, where nothing you do has any sort of actual repercussions.

Well, I say it's easy - Corbyn has made a wonderful job of f*cking it up for the past however many years. One of the worst governments in living memory and he still hasn't managed to present Labour as a credible opposition...it's incredible.

Edited by greg45

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5 minutes ago, greg45 said:

Did you read the article Shaytrev posted?

Whatever government is currently and has recently been in power is to blame, that's how it works. But that alone doesn't advocate a change. It's very easy to stand up and throw rocks at the current government from the opposite benches, where nothing you do has any sort of actual repercussions.

Well, I say it's easy - Corbyn has made a wonderful job of f*cking it up for the past however many years. One of the worst governments in living memory and he still hasn't managed to present Labour as a credible opposition...it's incredible.

Ha ha, you are right!

Dont like the guy, but do like the policies!

I've never known times like these where politics is such a mess, both main parties seeming to be trying to lose.

Guess none of them want to be in power when Brexit happens eh!

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2 hours ago, chrisbo61 said:

The Tories are to blame! They've been in power ten years!

 

9 years and six months of which 5 years was a coalition.. starting the process of clearing up the labour mess... so you could say they were in power 4 years six months 

and which party did the crazy PFI building hospitals for crazy payments ... labour !! 
 

come you have to admit every dumb thing the Tories have done were Equalled by labour 

 

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1 hour ago, chrisbo61 said:

Ha ha, you are right

I've never known times like these where politics is such a mess, both main parties seeming to be trying to lose.

Guess none of them want to be in power when Brexit happens eh!

Too true 

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7 minutes ago, Nick said:

9 years and six months of which 5 years was a coalition.. starting the process of clearing up the labour mess... so you could say they were in power 4 years six months 

and which party did the crazy PFI building hospitals for crazy payments ... labour !! 
 

come you have to admit every dumb thing the Tories have done were Equalled by labour 

 

Nick,  ffs no one left anything a mess! What are you on about? Dont tell me you think the labour party were responsible for the global banking crises! Surely you are not that gullible! The economy was actually picking up during the latter half of 09, vat had been dropped and a set of economic stimulants had been put in place by the labour party!

Sadly the true to form gullible electorate beleived the billionaire tax Dodger owned press and voted in the Tories in 10, and the rest they say is history, an entire nation brought to its knees by ideological austerity ! All totally unnecessary. 

It was the Tories under Major that introduced PFI as a way of using private money to fund public buildings, schools hospitals etc, Blairs labour party ran with it  used it to actually invest in the countries infrastructure, something the shower of shite in power now seem reluctant to do, rather sell it off to their mates and rent it back at absorbitent rates!

No ones perfect but I can make a guess that the Tories have had more of a negative impact on the ordinary man in the street than the labour party have!

I dont remember the labour party closing police stations, fire stations, libraries,  selling of our public services! Do you?

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8 minutes ago, Erik Everhard said:

@Shaytrev you're making a lot of derogatory remarks regarding people's mental health.

I know it's in gest to make a political point but maybe a change of tack is in order?

Not derogatory at all. Well, maybe to a snowflake.

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Perhaps we could have comments on this. Labour have told us no one on less than £85,000 a year will pay more tax they have stated this over and over again.

Well what about this a bloke works full time he earns £35,000 a year his wife doesn't  work as they have children and she's a stay home mum. Currently he can claim part of her personal tax allowance worth about £250 per year. Labour will stop this, less than £85,000 a year and more tax. It affects about  400,000. Angela Rayner when pressed on this said Labours policy would mean he would pay less child care. He doesn't  need it his wife looks after the kids. Labour are still economically  illiterate. 

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2 hours ago, Shaytrev said:

Not derogatory at all. Well, maybe to a snowflake.

There's still a lot of stigma attached to mental health issues Trev.

As I said before, I know your comments are in gest and are aimed at Corbyn and his followers but perhaps it's not fair to associate the two together.

You have a choice to vote Labour, you don't have a choice to be mentally ill.

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4 hours ago, chrisbo61 said:

Nick,  ffs no one left anything a mess! What are you on about? Dont tell me you think the labour party were responsible for the global banking crises! Surely you are not that gullible! The economy was actually picking up during the latter half of 09, vat had been dropped and a set of economic stimulants had been put in place by the labour party!

Sadly the true to form gullible electorate beleived the billionaire tax Dodger owned press and voted in the Tories in 10, and the rest they say is history, an entire nation brought to its knees by ideological austerity ! All totally unnecessary. 

It was the Tories under Major that introduced PFI as a way of using private money to fund public buildings, schools hospitals etc, Blairs labour party ran with it  used it to actually invest in the countries infrastructure, something the shower of shite in power now seem reluctant to do, rather sell it off to their mates and rent it back at absorbitent rates!

No ones perfect but I can make a guess that the Tories have had more of a negative impact on the ordinary man in the street than the labour party have!

I dont remember the labour party closing police stations, fire stations, libraries,  selling of our public services! Do you?

As I have said before 

during the growth years of labour they took full credit even though the world economy was growing .. then there is a world economic crisis and suddenly says not their fault we plunged into recession .. can’t have it both ways

can never fathom how the coalition government that followed where the national debt was more or less doubled that this was austerity ?? 
always seemed odd to me 

then finally look at the crazy deals NHS PFI deals labour did .. a significant amount of NHS money is now funding these poorly  constructed deals ..for a party that goes on about the Tory threat of privatisation of the health service .. labour are every bit as guilty.. 

and I use the word guilty because I don’t believe it privatisation of the health service 

i just think it could be a lot better run! 

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1 minute ago, Nick said:

As I have said before 

during the growth years of labour they took full credit even though the world economy was growing .. then there is a world economic crisis and suddenly says not their fault we plunged into recession .. can’t have it both ways

can never fathom how the coalition government that followed where the national debt was more or less doubled that this was austerity ?? 
always seemed odd to me 

then finally look at the crazy deals NHS PFI deals labour did .. a significant amount of NHS money is now funding these poorly  constructed deals ..for a party that goes on about the Tory threat of privatisation of the health service .. labour are every bit as guilty.. 

and I use the word guilty because I don’t believe it privatisation of the health service 

i just think it could be a lot better run! 

Under rrhe boom years of Labour banks were lending money out at levels never seen before. The consumers, us, lapped it up and borrowed and borrowed and borrowed. This allowed us to buy more and more stuff which in turn helped the economy to grow, more just be created and more taxes paid into the coffers.

During that time Gordon Brown should have implemented more financial regulation. Try and keep the boom going but make it a more managed one. This is where he fell down. He was happy to ride the crest of a wave until it crashed onto the (Northern) rock.

The same thing will happen again. Banks will slowly start to build and bud the amount they lend and so on and so forth. The problem the UK now has is the financial fallout from Brexit. Depending on how bad things are ie the terrible Boris deal, or the complete break Brexit or, if the Lib Dems win, a potential 2nd referendum which could see a different result from the first one, which in turn would actually see a projected rise in GDP by 1.9%

But going back onto the original point, banks were throwing money at people and when they do that of course the economy boomed.

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Can someone explain this to me -

Last time Labour were in power and they handed it over to the Conservatives we had the famous "no money left in the pot" message left. 

Labour supporters are now crying that the Conservatives have been reckless with spending, having spent more than any other government etc...

Labour release their manifesto that is outspending what the Conservatives plan to do to the ratio of 4/1 at the very least. 

So, the government that left the pot dry and has been vocal about the Conservatives spending more than any other government plan to spend 4 times more than this governments projected costs if put into power. 

How is this meant to work?

I love the plans and ideas that Labour have put forward, however they are simply unobtainable with the current financial climate and there is no proper explanation on how they plan to do this. They plan to do this by taxing the lowest paid less, pay them more per hour, however also make them take 4 day weeks. I'm sorry, non of it adds up. No one is currently working 50+ hours a week through choice, its through need. Its OK promising to raise the minimum wage, however if you then cut the working week down so people are working less hours, are you not shooting the same people in the foot there?

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27 minutes ago, Flea said:

Can someone explain this to me -

Last time Labour were in power and they handed it over to the Conservatives we had the famous "no money left in the pot" message left. 

Labour supporters are now crying that the Conservatives have been reckless with spending, having spent more than any other government etc...

Labour release their manifesto that is outspending what the Conservatives plan to do to the ratio of 4/1 at the very least. 

So, the government that left the pot dry and has been vocal about the Conservatives spending more than any other government plan to spend 4 times more than this governments projected costs if put into power. 

How is this meant to work?

I love the plans and ideas that Labour have put forward, however they are simply unobtainable with the current financial climate and there is no proper explanation on how they plan to do this. They plan to do this by taxing the lowest paid less, pay them more per hour, however also make them take 4 day weeks. I'm sorry, non of it adds up. No one is currently working 50+ hours a week through choice, its through need. Its OK promising to raise the minimum wage, however if you then cut the working week down so people are working less hours, are you not shooting the same people in the foot there?

Manifesto's from all parties will contain proposals that the particular party in question know full well they can't deliver.

But this Labour manifesto does seem to have been written on the back of a fag packet and it goes beyond making the odd offer that they can't deliver to just plain daft promises that the overwhelming majority of folk know it's impossible to deliver.

The main one that springs to mind is the free broadband offer. A friend of mine had a very lively debate on this matter when she quite innocently asked if Mr Corbyn was deluded. Only to be verbally attacked by some of her own Facebook friend for questioning something he'd proposed. But anyway, that went on for quite a while. But during the debate that was carried out by a few hundred people, one of he friends who worksin the broadband industry and is an engineer, said that when he and his colleagues read the proposed free broadband roll out and the amount he claimed it would cost they were all amazed. He said that the timescale to implement such a huge scheme would be phenominal. Theres currently nowhere near the amount tbof fully trained senginwers needed to carry out such a mammoth task and the absolo ludicrous figure of £20Billion must have been a complete guess because the engineer, without having the ability to do a proper costing if such a scheme but who does have experience in the field, gave an educated guess if at the very least five times Mr Corbyns estimate. Which when you think about it you can probably go to maybe 2 or 3 times more in top of that.

So it's not just a manifesto full of promises that probably won't be kept its a manifesto of outlandish and impossible to meet targets.

Another way to look at it is the majority of it is utter bollocks.

 

 

 

Edited by Erik Everhard

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5 minutes ago, Erik Everhard said:

 

The main one that springs to mind is the free broadband offer. A friend of mine had a very lively debate on this matter when she quite innocently asked if Mr Corbyn was deluded. Only to be verbally attacked by some of her own Facebook friend sfor questioning something he'd proposed.

 

Oh, Corbyn fans attacking anyone who dares criticise him, where have we seen this before I wonder? 

There is a real vile nasty side to some within Labour at the moment on the extreme left. 

Maybe in the next few days I may post up some private Labour correspondence between a campaigner that posts on here and two others from the party where they talk quite "frankly" about what areas of Halifax are worth bothering with when it comes to campaigning (Note these are private correspondence from the last election). Some quite eye opening comments, lets put it that way. 

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3 minutes ago, Flea said:

Oh, Corbyn fans attacking anyone who dares criticise him, where have we seen this before I wonder? 

There is a real vile nasty side to some within Labour at the moment on the extreme left. 

Maybe in the next few days I may post up some private Labour correspondence between a campaigner that posts on here and two others from the party where they talk quite "frankly" about what areas of Halifax are worth bothering with when it comes to campaigning (Note these are private correspondence from the last election). Some quite eye opening comments, lets put it that way. 

One woman had a right go at my friend Nina, a woman who has helped homeless women off the street and into accomodation. A woman that does loads of charity work for kids with no families and families that are misplaced and who are seeking accomodation etc. No, this gobshite woman, because Nina criticised Corbyn in what was a pretty throw away comments got dogs abuse from a few different people but one inpaeticar. Many different people who will vote for different parties at the election, came to her aid, although she can stick up for herself, and put this woman in her place.

I've just remembered probably my favourite thing from the Labour manifesto and if they do gain power I'm really looking forward to it and that's free unicorn rides every February 30th.

 

 

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Just now, Erik Everhard said:

One woman had a right go at my friend Nina, a woman who has helped homeless women off the street and into accomodation. A woman that does loads of charity work for kids with no families and families that are misplaced and who are seeking accomodation etc. No, this gobshite woman, because Nina criticised Corbyn in what was a pretty throw away comments got dogs abuse from a few different people but one inpaeticar. Many different people who will vote for different parties at the election, came to her aid, although she can stick up for herself, and put this woman in her place.

 

A bit like some jumped up eco warrior deliberately taking eight year posts, editing them and presenting them to be racist even though he full well knows they are jokes and not the persons views he is pretending them to be? 

 

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1 minute ago, Flea said:

A bit like some jumped up eco warrior deliberately taking eight year posts, editing them and presenting them to be racist even though he full well knows they are jokes and not the persons views he is pretending them to be? 

 

Well, I know you and Pliny are at loggerheads over this matter and it does seem to be running quite deep, and I can understand why.

I've read tonight that the head Rabbi of England and Northern Ireland has said that he fears a Labour win on the 12th of December. He says that a possible Labour win is causing huge anxiety amongst the Jewish community.

I never thought I'd see the day when the Labour party had a problem with racism amongst its ranks.

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