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Mad money, and politics and history and international law, and climate change, and Brexit, and Chinese imports, and Diane Abbott, and Donald Trump, and the General Election, and the NHS.

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5 hours ago, Hoddie said:

BoJo caught fluffing his figures when talking about the proposed National Insurance cuts. Says raising the threshold to £9,500/year will save 'all working people' £500/year. He was challenged repeatedly on this yet he was adamant that his figures were correct. They aren't. Not even close.

Will the papers be ripping him apart for this like they did with Abbot? Of course not. Will the regular users on here who slag her off for her inability to hold figures be slagging BoJo off for the same issue? I won't hold my breath. Nothing to do with the fact she's a woman and he's a womaniser. And that she's black and he's white. No, nothing to do with any of that. It's just a coincidence that the entire world jumped on Abbot for getting her figures wrong, but haven't jumped on BoJo for the same reason.

So the whole worlds racist?

Absolute bollocks.

Everybody takes the piss out of Boris. He's called Bungling Boris FFS. He's useless. 

It's the worst choice for prime minister in my time on earth. Not only that he's lied and lied and lied. Oh, but he'll probably still win. 

What does that tell you about the opposition which includes Diane Abbott.

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25 minutes ago, Bubba said:

I know from personal experience that procurement with anything to do with public services - the council, NHS, etc - is amateur. There is the attitude of an open cheque book, with value for money not necessarily high on the list of priorities. 

The more centralised something gets, the more it costs. Doesn't have to be like that. 

Private companies bidding to run UK healthcare services is just plain wrong imo, which is the real issue here, not the hyperbolic example of needing to buy stationary and other supplies from private companies. 

As for those who work for the NHS both directly and indirectly, to suggest they'll all leave the NHS is nonsense. If the NHS no longer paid those private companies to supply the services those people are providing, they could afford to pay them directly for the save thing. Or does that money magically come out of thin air right now? 

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19 minutes ago, Erik Everhard said:

So the whole worlds racist?

Absolute bollocks.

Everybody takes the piss out of Boris. He's called Bungling Boris FFS. He's useless. 

It's the worst choice for prime minister in my time on earth. Not only that he's lied and lied and lied. Oh, but he'll probably still win. 

What does that tell you about the opposition which includes Diane Abbott.

It's double standards. BoJo gets a free pass for fumbling his figures and all the lies he willingly told during the Brexit debates. Yet people are still going on about Diane Abbot's failure to provide the right figures in two interviews, despite a couple of decades of sterling work on Parliament. 

It's just a coincidence that she's a woman and black, and he isn't? Is that what you're suggesting? Or does he get away with it because he's a Tory and she's Labour? Is that really what you expect me to believe? 

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3 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

The more centralised something gets, the more it costs. Doesn't have to be like that. 

Private companies bidding to run UK healthcare services is just plain wrong imo, which is the real issue here, not the hyperbolic example of needing to buy stationary and other supplies from private companies. 

As for those who work for the NHS both directly and indirectly, to suggest they'll all leave the NHS is nonsense. If the NHS no longer paid those private companies to supply the services those people are providing, they could afford to pay them directly for the save thing. Or does that money magically come out of thin air right now? 

Agreed - but it's one hell of a model to break up and change. The problem is the party who would start to try and break it up would be Labour - this is also the party who will most likely give us two referendums in the next year (admittedly the Scottish one doesn't really affect the NHS) and god forgive yet another election in the next two years when whatever minority government they may have probably can't get through the result of their brexit referendum successfully. So the multi-year change that would be needed to really change this model of working in the NHS would no doubt be chucked away after a few years anyway.

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1 minute ago, Hoddie said:

It's double standards. BoJo gets a free pass for fumbling his figures and all the lies he willingly told during the Brexit debates. Yet people are still going on about Diane Abbot's failure to provide the right figures in two interviews, despite a couple of decades of sterling work on Parliament. 

It's just a coincidence that she's a woman and black, and he isn't? Is that what you're suggesting? Or does he get away with it because he's a Tory and she's Labour? Is that really what you expect me to believe? 

No, it's you once again putting words into people's mouths and telling them their opinion.

Funnily enough it's you that started this obsession with Diane Abbott off again.

Nobody was talking about Diane Abbott.

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Just now, greg45 said:

Agreed - but it's one hell of a model to break up and change. The problem is the party who would start to try and break it up would be Labour - this is also the party who will most likely give us two referendums in the next year (admittedly the Scottish one doesn't really affect the NHS) and god forgive yet another election in the next two years when whatever minority government they may have probably can't get through the result of their brexit referendum successfully. So the multi-year change that would be needed to really change this model of working in the NHS would no doubt be chucked away after a few years anyway.

Every government forces massive change on the NHS, that's why it costs three times more to run than it did in the 90s when Blair first came to power. 

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1 minute ago, Erik Everhard said:

No, it's you once again putting words into people's mouths and telling them their opinion.

Funnily enough it's you that started this obsession with Diane Abbott off again.

Nobody was talking about Diane Abbott.

Sorry what words did I put onto anyone's mouth? And I'm pointing out the double standard being applied to our Prime Minister and an opposition MP. Kinda difficult to do that without mentioning her. 

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1 hour ago, greg45 said:

One of the most stupid comments I've ever read. Contracts for what exactly?

£9.5 billion went out of the NHS budget on private companies last year! Try getting an NHS dentist!

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12 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

Sorry what words did I put onto anyone's mouth? And I'm pointing out the double standard being applied to our Prime Minister and an opposition MP. Kinda difficult to do that without mentioning her. 

It's pretty straight forward, Boris gets a lot of stick in the media. So does Jeremy Corbyn, more than Diane Abbott.

To suggest Diane Abbott gets stick from the media because she's a black female is scandalous. 

 

Edited by Erik Everhard

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8 minutes ago, chrisbo61 said:

£9.5 billion went out of the NHS budget on private companies last year! 

How much would you be happy going to private companies?

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25 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

It's double standards. BoJo gets a free pass for fumbling his figures and all the lies he willingly told during the Brexit debates. Yet people are still going on about Diane Abbot's failure to provide the right figures in two interviews, despite a couple of decades of sterling work on Parliament. 

It's just a coincidence that she's a woman and black, and he isn't? Is that what you're suggesting? Or does he get away with it because he's a Tory and she's Labour? Is that really what you expect me to believe? 

Come off it. When does Boris get a pass? He is possibly the least credible PM in history and will probably only get in because the opposition are just as, if not worse, less credible.

As for Diane Abbott, for some people yes, race will be a factor, but she is a joke of an MP. Her appearances on 'This Week' used to be terrible; she has shown double standard on race and education; and worst of all, she had a relationship with Jeremy Corbyn :D

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14 minutes ago, Bubba said:

How much would you be happy going to private companies?

I dont agree with outsourcing health care when we have a national health service, there is no place for the profit motive in a universal health care system!

Are you happy with the way the NHS is run? Do you find waiting times unacceptable? Do you think that if it was funded sufficiently it would be better?

I cant understand how you think that the NHS, that belongs to everyone in this country, should be sold of for private companies to profit from!

 

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3 minutes ago, chrisbo61 said:

Try getting in as a patient!

My mate just has.

Talking of dentists, when I lived in Calderdale in the mid 2000's there was crisis over dentists and people were having to travel up to 30 miles to get a dentist.

A new one opened in Sowerby Bridge and I got in there but prior to that it was a nightmare and I almost registered with one in Batley.

Far worse then than it is now.

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9 minutes ago, chrisbo61 said:

I dont agree with outsourcing health care when we have a national health service, there is no place for the profit motive in a universal health care system!

Are you happy with the way the NHS is run? Do you find waiting times unacceptable? Do you think that if it was funded sufficiently it would be better?

I cant understand how you think that the NHS, that belongs to everyone in this country, should be sold of for private companies to profit from!

 

What is getting sold off?

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I can heartily recommend any traditional Conservative voter to go with Labour this election. Give it one term, and think of all the fantastic new state assets your next Tory PM will be able to sell off to their pals!

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19 minutes ago, Erik Everhard said:

My mate just has.

Talking of dentists, when I lived in Calderdale in the mid 2000's there was crisis over dentists and people were having to travel up to 30 miles to get a dentist.

A new one opened in Sowerby Bridge and I got in there but prior to that it was a nightmare and I almost registered with one in Batley.

Far worse then than it is now.

Well if 'your mate's just has there is obviously no problem!ffs

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8 minutes ago, Bubba said:

What is getting sold off?

You know full well the point he's making. There's an internal market in the NHS now where public providers (traditional NHS, Trusts and related services like ambulance stations, call centres, etc.) have to submit bids alongside external providers in order to provide services. That can, in theory, save money, but in practice usually does exactly the opposite.

28 minutes ago, Bubba said:

Come off it. When does Boris get a pass? He is possibly the least credible PM in history and will probably only get in because the opposition are just as, if not worse, less credible.

As for Diane Abbott, for some people yes, race will be a factor, but she is a joke of an MP. Her appearances on 'This Week' used to be terrible; she has shown double standard on race and education; and worst of all, she had a relationship with Jeremy Corbyn :D

He gets a pass from the media all the time. He's portrayed as a likeable clown at worst, a politician with the best of intentions but prone to a funny gaff, whereas Diane Abbot is portrayed as an incompetent idiot who somehow manages to con the electorate every election.

16 minutes ago, Erik Everhard said:

My mate just has.

Talking of dentists, when I lived in Calderdale in the mid 2000's there was crisis over dentists and people were having to travel up to 30 miles to get a dentist.

A new one opened in Sowerby Bridge and I got in there but prior to that it was a nightmare and I almost registered with one in Batley.

Far worse then than it is now.

I couldn't get a dentist when I lived in Queensbury. The only way I could get dental treatment was to call a contact centre at 7am and hope for one of a dozen emergency slots held across Bradford. The only alternative was to visit A&E. That was 11 years ago and it may have changed but if it has, I doubt by much. A report in 2017 said that A&E departments across the country were dealing with £18m worth of treatment every year that should be dealt with by dentists.

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6 minutes ago, chrisbo61 said:

Well if 'your mate's just has there is obviously no problem!ffs

You are trying to make out there's a problem when there  isn't.

I can't speak for Calderdale because I don't know whether you're able to find one or not but in Leeds are plenty available.

 

Edited by Erik Everhard

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1 minute ago, Hoddie said:

You know full well the point he's making. There's an internal market in the NHS now where public providers (traditional NHS, Trusts and related services like ambulance stations, call centres, etc.) have to submit bids alongside external providers in order to provide services. That can, in theory, save money, but in practice usually does exactly the opposite.

He gets a pass from the media all the time. He's portrayed as a likeable clown at worst, a politician with the best of intentions but prone to a funny gaff, whereas Diane Abbot is portrayed as an incompetent idiot who somehow manages to con the electorate every election.

I couldn't get a dentist when I lived in Queensbury. The only way I could get dental treatment was to call a contact centre at 7am and hope for one of a dozen emergency slots held across Bradford. The only alternative was to visit A&E. That was 11 years ago and it may have changed but if it has, I doubt by much. A report in 2017 said that A&E departments across the country were dealing with £18m worth of treatment every year that should be dealt with by dentists.

I had a similar problem about 3 years earlier.

There has been improvements since in the amount of new dentists opening and the amount of NHS places.

I think Chrisbo was trying to politicise it but it was definitely far worse under Labour.

I needed dental treatment and I found a dentist near Wakefield but not far from Leeds and it was the first number I called.

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7 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

He gets a pass from the media all the time. He's portrayed as a likeable clown at worst, a politician with the best of intentions but prone to a funny gaff, whereas Diane Abbot is portrayed as an incompetent idiot who somehow manages to con the electorate every election.

Abbot’s public speaking is shocking. Labour shouldn’t have her anywhere near a microphone.

That aside, she is a bloody fantastic MP and her record of achievements are up there with the best of them. It is people like her that will make Labour great again once the current shambles get kicked into the long grass. 

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