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Nick

The council doing its bit as usual

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17 minutes ago, chrisbo61 said:

Oh, yes, sorry local elections.

Ps I live in calderdale I can't vote for Corbyn! Isn't he in North London somewhere?

Islington? 

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Not sure I like wild getting involved in anything but managing the team. Don’t like opening Pandora’s box at this moment in time.

 

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Most Town councils in situations where their sporting clubs are being successful would try to support the club in its promotion aims. 
 After all the club only want to use the pitch, a few seats and the changing rooms for the purpose they pay rent.

Suppose it would mean some workers having to venture back from working from home - god forbid.

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It does have a case of shooting oneself in the foot in a way. A successful football club (And for that matter a successful rugby club) should be the ideal thing for the Council, since they take all the money from food and drink. Either team doing well will pull in bigger crowds which will increase the revenue they get on a match day.

At the same time, if we were to go up, if we had a town full of Bradford fans in the town, its going to bring in more revenue for the local area than a match day with 2 men and a dog from Bromley. 

The Council has never really wanted to help the club though, we have always known that. Its hard to know if its contempt or neglect really. Lets not forget its only 5/6 years ago they tried to sell the ground for a packet of magic beans and do it via the backdoor in accepting such a poor offer it wouldn't have to be made public. 

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Sounds like "Project Let's Buy the Shay Back" :D How much does a packet of Magic Beans cost nowadays?

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4 hours ago, ITMAN said:

Sounds like "Project Let's Buy the Shay Back" :D How much does a packet of Magic Beans cost nowadays?

Ideal scenario would be the Club to lease the East Stand and its operations whilst leaving the Ground in Council ownership.  It would need a few Horsfield/Vardy/Gregory sales or major cup runs to afford it and the subsequent hike in cost to use the ground given the East stand currently helps subsidise the rent.

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3 hours ago, shaykehands said:

Ideal scenario would be the Club to lease the East Stand and its operations whilst leaving the Ground in Council ownership.  It would need a few Horsfield/Vardy/Gregory sales or major cup runs to afford it and the subsequent hike in cost to use the ground given the East stand currently helps subsidise the rent.

Yes a 999 year lease on the ground itself would be beneficial with the Council retaining the freehold.

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We used to have a 125 year lease on a peppercorn rent, didn't do us any favours. Didn't stop property speculators from getting involved with the club for their own ends. The only safe solution is public ownership and constant scrutiny. 

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6 hours ago, shaykehands said:

Ideal scenario would be the Club to lease the East Stand and its operations whilst leaving the Ground in Council ownership.  It would need a few Horsfield/Vardy/Gregory sales or major cup runs to afford it and the subsequent hike in cost to use the ground given the East stand currently helps subsidise the rent.

in what way??

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12 minutes ago, chadders said:

in what way??

Obvious. If the East Stand wasnt used by other users (external to the football/rugby club) then the rent would probably need to go up.

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56 minutes ago, Bubba said:

Obvious. If the East Stand wasnt used by other users (external to the football/rugby club) then the rent would probably need to go up.

don't think it's changed from when i worked at The Shay Gav in as much as the catering company who have the franchise take all / the majority of room hire and associated food and drink revenues and just pay for their franchise and possibly a small percentage of any net profits. The daytime use of offices and rooms has recently mainly been Calderdale MBC themselves tho this will diminish when they get use of Princess Buildings in town??

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We can’t really slag off the council. Calderdale has a population of 200,000 and less than 1%  - 2,000 - are regulars at the football or rugby. Yet, the council spent millions on the ground telling the wider public it would be a community stadium for all to explain the huge expenditure. That never happened. How many marching bands, pop concerts, school sports days etc have been held there? None. Without the council the offices would have remained empty. It’s understandable that the council would happily sell it on if guarantees were in place to ensure sport continued. It’s not for the public to subsidise private businesses and from the neutral public point of view if the football club want more money then it should get itself promoted to the premier league!!

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11 minutes ago, Redcard said:

 It’s not for the public to subsidise private businesses and from the neutral public point of view if the football club want more money then it should get itself promoted to the premier league!!

Its not massively different from the heavily praised Piece Hall. Renovation paid for by public money, private businesses rent space to operate from.

The argument is whether the two clubs are paying a reasonable rent, not paying enough for what they receive or in fact paying too much. Only when that is known and understand can anyone say the public are subsidising the two clubs to play at the Shay. Now, if it was purely used as home for FCHT/HRLFC with no conferencing/banqueting facilities, office space, 5-a-side, car parking, etc, then you might have a point. But its difficult to say whether you do or dont.

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1 hour ago, Redcard said:

We can’t really slag off the council. Calderdale has a population of 200,000 and less than 1%  - 2,000 - are regulars at the football or rugby. Yet, the council spent millions on the ground telling the wider public it would be a community stadium for all to explain the huge expenditure. That never happened. How many marching bands, pop concerts, school sports days etc have been held there? None. Without the council the offices would have remained empty. It’s understandable that the council would happily sell it on if guarantees were in place to ensure sport continued. It’s not for the public to subsidise private businesses and from the neutral public point of view if the football club want more money then it should get itself promoted to the premier league!!

Really? Millions invested? What about the land being formerly a council tip turned into a football ground by volunteers? What about previous excessive rents? Where's your mention of football trust investment?

Are you actually a Shayman or are you Head of Calderdale Council in disguise?!! 

When you say we are a private business that's only a technicality, it's an expensive hobby for those involved. The club doesn't exist to make money for profiteers, it is part of the community, employs people, promotes sponsors (local businesses) puts Halifax on the map and could bring more investment (piece hall shoppers lol) into the town if we were more successful. 

You could trawl the length and breadth of Great Britain and not find a more anti football council anywhere. 

You're way off the mark 

(by the way I've always favoured a move to smaller stadium with a decent sports/social club revenue instead of playing in a stadium that's far too big for us and that won't ever get finished in our lifetime, despite the millions invested) 

Edited by shaymen_x

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Can anyone point me in the right direction to find out when these "millions" were spent on the Shay. I would be interested to know what price the property speculators think a brown field site of the size of the Shay would be worth for redevelopment?

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During the Abbot affair it was revealed that the Shay, Estate, at least the part that involved the stadium,, had a book value of about £20m. And that was for the land rather than anything on it, so while I support the point that @shaymen_x is making about the club turning it from a tip into a stadium, it doesn't really affect the site's value. A buyer would be unlikely to want to retain the stadium, even if - like Abbot - they claimed otherwise.

They definitely spent millions finishing the east stand, though I can't remember how much off the top of my head. Nothing is cheap when a government is involved.

@shaymen_x is bang on the money about the club being a benefit to the town. One of the reasons in favour of founding the club was that so many people were leaving the town and spending money elsewhere to support clubs like Bradford and Huddersfield. Fag packet maths will clearly show that over the years the club has brought more money into the town than it has cost.

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9 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

During the Abbot affair it was revealed that the Shay, Estate, at least the part that involved the stadium,, had a book value of about £20m. And that was for the land rather than anything on it, so while I support the point that @shaymen_x is making about the club turning it from a tip into a stadium, it doesn't really affect the site's value. A buyer would be unlikely to want to retain the stadium, even if - like Abbot - they claimed otherwise.

They definitely spent millions finishing the east stand, though I can't remember how much off the top of my head. Nothing is cheap when a government is involved.

@shaymen_x is bang on the money about the club being a benefit to the town. One of the reasons in favour of founding the club was that so many people were leaving the town and spending money elsewhere to support clubs like Bradford and Huddersfield. Fag packet maths will clearly show that over the years the club has brought more money into the town than it has cost.

How interesting. I just did a quick google on what Elland Road changed hands for the last time it was sold and that came in at £20m, in 2017, to the current owners. I would have thought that for a site in a prime location, in Yorkshire's biggest city that £20m was about right, £20m for a site in Halifax?

Edited by ITMAN

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3 minutes ago, ITMAN said:

How interesting. I just did a quick google on what Elland Road changed hands for the last time it was sold and that came in at £20m, in 2017, to the current owners. I would have thought that for a site in a prime location, in Yorkshire's biggest city that £20m was about right, £20m for a site in Halifax?

The value of Elland Road as a stadium will be less than its value as land for development, stands to reason. It's like buying a farmer's field at a cost of maybe £20k, but with planning permission for a housing development could be worth £1m plus.

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Just now, Hoddie said:

The value of Elland Road as a stadium will be less than its value as land for development, stands to reason. It's like buying a farmer's field at a cost of maybe £20k, but with planning permission for a housing development could be worth £1m plus.

Yes, but on the same basis, if you take the Elland Road site, whether it has a stadium on it or not, at a cost of £20 million, then would any sane developer pay that amount for a similar sized plot of land in downtown Halifax? I would sense the answer would be no. So, at today's rates what would it be worth to anyone if the council chose to offload it, whether to a property developer, or a form of Community Trust?

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@hoddie in terms of the tip I agree, it adds no value. I was talking about the ground in history / legacy terms. A lot of people over the years have emotionally invested in the club, and it's not always about cold, hard cash. The council don't really understand this.

Also the fact that the council haven't generated enough income from other activities at the shay is not my problem. They would rather throw money at failed ventures such as the Square Chapel. 

A few of us who attend matches no longer live in Halifax. I know one landlord in town who is grateful to get our tourist investment. This type of investment will be replicated elsewhere all season long.

Edited by shaymen_x
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