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Hoddie

Plans A, B, C and D, what happens next?

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Since reformation the club has earned a good amount of cash from transfer fees, plum cup ties and TV appearances. A combination of luck and planning, but it allowed the club some breathing space in terms of 'living within its means'. DB has made clear on several occasions that the club is now using its reserves at a rate of at least £100,000 per season (presumably assuming no further unexpected cash windfalls).

What DB and his fellow Directors have done is use this cash to keep the club going as long as possible without any outside investment. Let's call this Plan A. It has resulted in several promotions from lower leagues, an appearance at Wembley in the FA Trophy and an appearance in the Conference play-offs and a near miss, but also three pretty poor seasons in the Conference, including last year after supposed record levels of investment in facilities and the squad.

We all know what Plan B entails. Let's not have that debate again. Supporter ownership simply isn't going to happen at Halifax Town. That boat sailed and crashed long ago.

Some supporters advocate that the BoD should spend more than they are apparently prepared to spend. Let's call this Plan C. The obvious danger here is that should the investment not result in promotion from the Conference, or in a player (or players) that can later be sold for a profit, at best the money would be lost and at worst the club could be put at risk - particularly if the investment takes the form of Directors loans rather than donations - as happened in the past with the old club.

Plan D is outside investment and/or new owners. It would seem the BoD is open to either of these scenarios. The risks are obvious. Over the decades we've seen all types of individuals sit on the BoD at the club. Some honourable, some not so. Some asset strippers, some on an ego trip. Millionaires, local businessmen and those with deep pockets and very short arms. Incompetent dreamers, decent people without the resources to follow their initial buy-in. We've had skeletons inside cupboards inside cupboards inside cupboards. Shareholders holding the BoD and club to ransom, hangers-on and freeloaders. We've seen some Directors do their best, some do feck all, some work miracles and some work a fiddle (allegedly). Some made promises and never delivered, some made plans and almost made it. Some oversaw relegation, others promotion, most served up mediocrity but some provided memories that'll never be forgotten. Some built the club from scratch, some built and re-built the stadium. Some managed to show the fans and the town what was possible with nothing but the right manager and a good mix of middle of the road players. The fact is we don't know what would happen if new Directors came on board.

I would like to have seen Plan A where the cash windfalls were spent a little more quickly. Sure, we might have hit the "managed losses" stage 2-3 seasons earlier than we have done, but we might have avoided the dross like last season, and who knows may actually have managed to turn that play-off appearance and near miss into promotion. It's too late for that now, if we are to take DB at his word, and we have no reason not to, coupled with the club's abbreviated accounts, it seems like the reserves are virtually spent in any case.

The question is, when those reserves finally do dry up, what happens next? Is this when DB leaves? Could there actually be room for a Plan B despite my sincere doubts that it could ever happen? Who would dare try after last time? Would we welcome new Directors regardless who they are, their history, their connection with the club and the town? Would we have any choice? Do we hope that the current BoD are willing to actually throw some cash in the pot and stick around, keep the club going perhaps on a part-time basis until the next few windfalls come along to allow for the mythical push for promotion?

What actually happens next? Is there a Plan E?

Edited by Hoddie
Grammar.

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The board have waited far too long to try and grow the club. They have had multiple opportunities to offer such a season ticket offer. These include after scoring 100 goals in 2 successive seasons. Promotion from the conference north. Season after the play off defeat against Cambridge. Wembley. 8,000 against Chorley. This has come too late. We havent grown at all in terms of the supporter base. The extra income that would have brought. 

We have  now stagnated. 

If you are making a season ticket offer. You really need to back up that decision and get some decent players. Theres no point increasing season ticket sales of the new supporters are watching 0-0 after 0-0 the kids certainly won't stick around to watch that.

This is a massive season on and off the pitch i just hope the board and manager fully aprreciate that. 

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A great description of our position. However, I think we’ve ran out of the cash reserves and the Board are digging into their piggy banks to fund the club. 

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6 minutes ago, Greggs said:

The board have waited far too long to try and grow the club. They have had multiple opportunities to offer such a season ticket offer. These include after scoring 100 goals in 2 successive seasons. Promotion from the conference north. Season after the play off defeat against Cambridge. Wembley. 8,000 against Chorley. This has come too late. We havent grown at all in terms of the supporter base. The extra income that would have brought. 

We have  now stagnated. 

If you are making a season ticket offer. You really need to back up that decision and get some decent players. Theres no point increasing season ticket sales of the new supporters are watching 0-0 after 0-0 the kids certainly won't stick around to watch that.

This is a massive season on and off the pitch i just hope the board and manager fully aprreciate that. 

So what was the answer? Really what would you have done? The club is the same size as it was when I started supporting many years ago, the town continues to be a non sport supporting town.  Want a club in Halifax?  Live by your means because the limitations are the limitations..  I don't really care who owns it, but there has to be some sense of reality here.

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Just now, francisfirth said:

So what was the answer? Really what would you have done? The club is the same size as it was when I started supporting many years ago, the town continues to be a non sport supporting town.  Want a club in Halifax?  Live by your means because the limitations are the limitations..  I don't really care who owns it, but there has to be some sense of reality here.

But haven't dozens of other clubs broken through those limitations? Is Plan E just to give up hope of something better? Is there no path for Town back to the Football League? Genuinely interested what people think.

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Just now, francisfirth said:

So what was the answer? Really what would you have done? The club is the same size as it was when I started supporting many years ago, the town continues to be a non sport supporting town.  Want a club in Halifax?  Live by your means because the limitations are the limitations..  I don't really care who owns it, but there has to be some sense of reality here.

The answer was to try and grow the club when we had the highs of which there has been many over the last 10 years, why not offer free kids tickets the season after Wembley or after one of the promotions. 

I'm not a businessman as these men are you can't tell me they haven't missed out on plenty of opportunities to try and grow the supporter base. 

What are Salford doing? Yes they are a City and have a far bigger catchment area but that alone does not increase attendance figures. The only comparisin i'm making with regards to them is every season they have kicked on and driven the club in a very short space of time every promotion they have then stepped up a level in terms of professionalism year on year. 

We did not capatilse on our successes. 

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2 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

But haven't dozens of other clubs broken through those limitations? Is Plan E just to give up hope of something better? Is there no path for Town back to the Football League? Genuinely interested what people think.

Plenty clubs just gone broke too.

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Just now, Roy Race said:

Plenty clubs just gone broke too.

Not really. I can think of three Football League clubs since the early 1900s that were liquidated or similar: Accrington Stanley, Aldershot and Maidstone United. Of those, two progressed ahead of us after re-starting, which suggests playing it super safe to avoid any and all risk doesn't necessarily bring any more reward. There are of course many examples in non-league, but very few at Conference level and/or with our support.

In any case, we are potentially headed for a period where the club has less money to spend than it has spent in over a decade. What's Plan E?

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14 minutes ago, Hoddie said:

Not really. I can think of three Football League clubs since the early 1900s that were liquidated or similar: Accrington Stanley, Aldershot and Maidstone United. Of those, two progressed ahead of us after re-starting, which suggests playing it super safe to avoid any and all risk doesn't necessarily bring any more reward. There are of course many examples in non-league, but very few at Conference level and/or with our support.

In any case, we are potentially headed for a period where the club has less money to spend than it has spent in over a decade. What's Plan E?

Merge with Brighouse & become a superclub?

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15 minutes ago, Roy Race said:

Merge with Brighouse & become a superclub?

Take the 'Brighouse' out of Brighouse Town, and 'Town' out of Halifax Town. 

We could then become - Brighouse Town! 

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1 hour ago, Greggs said:

The answer was to try and grow the club when we had the highs of which there has been many over the last 10 years, why not offer free kids tickets the season after Wembley or after one of the promotions. 

I'm not a businessman as these men are you can't tell me they haven't missed out on plenty of opportunities to try and grow the supporter base. 

What are Salford doing? Yes they are a City and have a far bigger catchment area but that alone does not increase attendance figures. The only comparisin i'm making with regards to them is every season they have kicked on and driven the club in a very short space of time every promotion they have then stepped up a level in terms of professionalism year on year. 

We did not capatilse on our successes. 

They put season tickets out at £199 the season after Wembley but the uptake was not the best as i remember? Things have not always been done very well, i suspect even the BOD would admit that but you cant really use Salford as a bench mark?

That club had never achieved anything then out of nowhere along come a set of millionaire ex Man players backed up by a billionaire Thai business man, there not interested in running a good business they just want the highest league possible as fast as possible. So yes they've grown year on year but so has the investment, this allows them to let people in for £10 and pay players 4/5k per week so the fans get the best of both worlds.

As for the plan moving forward i suspect new investment is the only way now, i don't see the current BOD chucking their saving at the club, i think they'll walk away saying they tried their best but the Halifax public werent interested which is part true.

Edited by greygoose
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2 hours ago, Greggs said:

The answer was to try and grow the club when we had the highs of which there has been many over the last 10 years, why not offer free kids tickets the season after Wembley or after one of the promotions. 

I'm not a businessman as these men are you can't tell me they haven't missed out on plenty of opportunities to try and grow the supporter base. 

What are Salford doing? Yes they are a City and have a far bigger catchment area but that alone does not increase attendance figures. The only comparisin i'm making with regards to them is every season they have kicked on and driven the club in a very short space of time every promotion they have then stepped up a level in terms of professionalism year on year. 

We did not capatilse on our successes. 

So what would you have actually done?  Really, specifics. am looking for a nugget here. Salford is a city in the same sense as Wells is.

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Just now, Wilder Bollox said:

Clubs like Salford and Fylde aren't funded by their crowds

We have something in common with them then.

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11 hours ago, Hoddie said:

Not really. I can think of three Football League clubs since the early 1900s that were liquidated or similar: Accrington Stanley, Aldershot and Maidstone United. Of those, two progressed ahead of us after re-starting, which suggests playing it super safe to avoid any and all risk doesn't necessarily bring any more reward. There are of course many examples in non-league, but very few at Conference level and/or with our support.

In any case, we are potentially headed for a period where the club has less money to spend than it has spent in over a decade. What's Plan E?

Newport county, Darlington Hereford Scarborough Boston Telford... rushden and diamonds 

thats seven  more too add ..sure with more effort there is even more 

Newcastle blue star, north Ferriby 

then there are a few who saved themselves by stepping back

colwyn bay Chester Gateshead 

nick 

 

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2 minutes ago, Nick said:

Newport county, Darlington Hereford Scarborough Boston Telford... rushden and diamonds 

thats seven  more too add ..sure with more effort there is even more 

Newcastle blue star, north Ferriby 

then there are a few who saved themselves by stepping back

colwyn bay Chester Gateshead 

nick 

 

He said Football League 

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11 hours ago, Shaymen Stats said:

Take the 'Brighouse' out of Brighouse Town, and 'Town' out of Halifax Town. 

We could then become - Brighouse Town! 

But that leaves 'Town Halifax' 

I wouldn't want to come up against them.

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10 hours ago, francisfirth said:

So what would you have actually done?  Really, specifics. am looking for a nugget here. Salford is a city in the same sense as Wells is.

Hardly Wells population 10,000 Salford 103,000 massive differences there and surrounding area over 1 million people ,I cannot see them getting more than 6 or 7 thousand in the Championship but who knows with the investment that they have.

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12 hours ago, greygoose said:

They put season tickets out at £199 the season after Wembley but the uptake was not the best as i remember? Things have not always been done very well, i suspect even the BOD would admit that but you cant really use Salford as a bench mark?

That club had never achieved anything then out of nowhere along come a set of millionaire ex Man players backed up by a billionaire Thai business man, there not interested in running a good business they just want the highest league possible as fast as possible. So yes they've grown year on year but so has the investment, this allows them to let people in for £10 and pay players 4/5k per week so the fans get the best of both worlds.

As for the plan moving forward i suspect new investment is the only way now, i don't see the current BOD chucking their saving at the club, i think they'll walk away saying they tried their best but the Halifax public werent interested which is part true.

Two bullet points to your thread Greygoose:- First one I dont think I could wholly agree with. I dont think you could say that the ex Unt players are not interested in running a good business, there isn't a business man on the planet who doesn't want their business to succeed. I think it's obvious enough to all that they have invested very heavily in Salford/Manchester in general with not only the football club but they're other ventures. But even they have needed the Thai business man to back up the drive to build Salford FC into the football league, and that's the difference!!! But I genuinely believe that the Class of 92 are interested in the club and want it to succeed both financially and on the field.

2nd Point:- Being a millionaire in the modern football world isn't enough!!! Stupid as that sounds, you only have to look at what you can buy these days for a million pounds!!! Not a lot. Our BoD might have a few quid, I dont know!! They may have been relatively successful in business but they are not super rich. And I dont blame them one bit for not throwing their hard earned cash at the club, I wouldn't!!! Unless that elusive ultra rich backer can be found then our club is what it is. They bought the club in good faith, and as a business man I would say they have done a great job of getting it back on a stable footing. Why would they risk throwing 10yrs of hard graft down the drain to satisfy their collective ego??? I'm sure there are plenty of examples if I really put my mind to it, but the most famous person I can think of who walked away from his beloved club is Elton John. Going back to an era when a "pound" was a pound, he was warned by his accountants that if he didn't restrict his spending on the club, it would bankrupt him??? And to be fair, we were talking in terms of super wealthy. Mind you he was also spending £30k a month on flowers???? As you say, our only way up is to get a super wealthy backer, hopefully the BoD would remain in partnership as I believe that their common sense approach is a very good thing.

Just one final point, ask yourself this question:- If you were lucky enough to win lets say £10 million on the lottery, how much would you be prepared to throw at the club. This is a question to all, not aimed at you Grey!!!!!

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13 hours ago, greygoose said:

They put season tickets out at £199 the season after Wembley but the uptake was not the best as i remember? 

No but we were relegated after Wembley. Having £300 season tickets for Conference North football would have been a tough sell tbh.

 

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3 hours ago, Forever a Shayman said:

Hardly Wells population 10,000 Salford 103,000 massive differences there and surrounding area over 1 million people ,I cannot see them getting more than 6 or 7 thousand in the Championship but who knows with the investment that they have.

If money is no object then maybe they will start paying the fans to see them play

this would increase attendance levels

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1 hour ago, archietaylor7 said:

 

Just one final point, ask yourself this question:- If you were lucky enough to win lets say £10 million on the lottery, how much would you be prepared to throw at the club. This is a question to all, not aimed at you Grey!!!!!

All hypothetical (don’t do lottery for starters)

As an investment I wouldn’t spend a penny on the club as I’m confident I would see no returns 

For the love of my club a couple of million, however this would be towards training facilities, scouting and development of players, and not just throwing millions at marque signings as that would just put us in false position for a while until the money ran dry

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3 hours ago, Forever a Shayman said:

Hardly Wells population 10,000 Salford 103,000 massive differences there and surrounding area over 1 million people ,I cannot see them getting more than 6 or 7 thousand in the Championship but who knows with the investment that they have.

agreed in terms of population, but the identity of Salford is consumed by Manchester to the extent that it is suburb of Manchester. The historic attendances of the football team are indicator of how much of a city Salford is.

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